pre bereavement

So, she's 82, no real physical disease, left hospital severely underweight, diagnosed as determined to let herself die, but has no mental health team looking after her? Have the health professionals given up on her? Does that make you angry?

Does the NHS withdraw treatment for patients over eighty?

My mother suffered from bouts of extreme depression from 1961 to 1983 when she died. She was treated with ECT and lithium, which brought on Parkinsons Disease and then dementia. She was doubly incontinent for some time and my elderly father was her carer for far too long.

Not surprisingly, it became obvious that she had decided she was no longer going to eat or drink, she had had enough. As she became weaker the care home staff called out the GP, who called an ambulance and she was taken off to hospital at 8.00 pm at night. I stayed with her, insisting on seeing the consultant geriatrician who was to be in charge of her care, whi eventually materialised after 11.00 pm. There was talk of putting her on a drip. I knew that meant she woud never come out, so refused all treatment on her behalf, and the ambulance took her back to the care home.

The staff kept offering her food and drink, but she steadfastly refused. Two weeks longer she went into a coma. My father was distraught, but I tried to explain to him that she had fought for so long and had now made her decision that she wanted peace. Now in a coma she was getting it, we were sad, but as far as we knew her torment was over, and we should be so relieved about that. She died peacefully a week later.

If your mother is depressed and the doctors cannot relieve it, then maybe she deserves a peaceful way out too. Eventually her kidneys will fail, she will slip into unconsciousness and ease into death. If you can, visit and talk to her, hold her hand, tell her you love her and hate to see her suffering. If you can effectively give her permission to go, you will both feel better about the separation.

Age doesn't really come into it, if she is exhausted mentally and physically, with unrelieved depression, wouldn't you want to spare her further struggles?

The mother you knew has changed, and naturally you start grieving for that loss, moving on to grieving for the physical presence. As others have said, it is a process that we all have to work through. I hope you have access to bereavement counselling both before and after the death, it really is valuable. You need to understand how to care for you too.

I understand your mom, Jools- And also understand you- I see both sides- And do wish your mom would have factored your feelings into her decision-

My DM used to ask why was she still here? Her quality of life wasn't good in her last 3 yrs. She was bed ridden after breaking her hip in a fall. She was incontinent and suffered from bed sores. But although in her 90s, her mind was still keen and her memories intact. Occasionally we saw glimpses of the lively person she had been.

Her eyesight was failing and she lost her appetite but it was pneumonia which took her in the end.

The old man's friend.

It must be a very tough thing for you and your family to witness. Sending hugs.

I'm so sorry you are having to come to terms with your mum's decision and although 82 is no real age these days it does sound as though she has given up and wants to join your dad.

My own father did just the same thing after my mum went into care with dementia. Even though he had dementia himself when he ended up in hospital after a fall I'm convinced in his own mind he decided he didn't want to carry on and refused to eat. He lost 2 stone in 6 weeks and although we did everything possible to encourage him to eat he did end up going into the same home as my mum. He had 2 more stays back in hospital on a drip but eventually they told me they could do no more for him and I insisted they let him go back to the home so I could be with him. The last 3 weeks of his life were a very precious time to me - peaceful and a time to come to terms with his choice. Yes it was hard and very sad but when he finally passed away I felt he was at last at peace.

Just be with your mum as much as you can

I think this is for another thread really, but the lady is exercising a slow form of voluntary euthanasia. Perhaps the kinder thing would be to pass a law allowing those of like mind to be assisted in doing so?

An extraordinary difficult subject and not for this thread.

I have some experience of very similar.
For the last 10 years of her life my mum had just had enough. She had mobility problems and was virtually blind. She'd never been one for socialising, but was visited most days by myself and my family, and we did what we could to help her.
She then started to refuse meals I took for her, and for a long time said she didn't need any shopping. The pantry was empty, and then she turned her fridge off as there was nothing in it. All she had was cup after cup of coffee. She was a very stubborn women, and listened to nobody.
I eventually found her dead in her chair. She died of a burst stomach ulcer.
She had quiet obviously had enough, and looking back I can understand that...she had no quality of life, and despite family visits she was probably still lonely.
It is very difficult for the family however, but I think sometimes you have to respect their wishes.
Sending you love x

It sounds your mum has achieved everything she wanted to do and in her opinion has no purpose to get out of bed.

I understand how you feel, but having lost both my parents suddenly, both much younger than your mum is, she is giving you 'time' to say goodbye.

Please use the time well.

My DM was 90 earlier this year, she was determined to reach this milestone but nothing else mattered. She is still living at home & only has a cleaner once a fortnight & a gardener as required. I live 300 miles away & visit twice a year. I can envisage as DM's social life diminishes & loss of friends changes her daily life that she too may come to wish to just "fade away". She has not said as much but I fear that on my next visit in a couple of months time I will see changes in her.

It's sad for family & friends but I do hear some older people say that they are tired & have lived their lives but no longer wish to go on but to just quietly slip away preferably whilst they are still able to make their own decisions & without suffering serious illness.

I can offer no words of wisdom except that my DH once he knew he had terminal cancer (aged 71) just gave up & died only a couple of months after diagnosis, I effectively "lost" him 3 months before he died, very hard to watch

I wonder if there is more to this than meets the eye? Are you sure your mother has told you everything? My MIL had cancer and once it was diagnosed, she was dead within weeks. Basically, she just gave up. She'd watched someone go through a terrible time with treatment and watched her Mum die in agony. It was as if the stuffing was pulled out of her so she just gave up.
To get to such a small weight, she is either anorexic or has something which is causing such a low weight. It may be that her desire to give up is that she knows what is coming and just can't face it. Or she is more severely depressed and isn't getting treatment for that. Whatever it is, direct your anger towards the professionals who seem to have shrugged their shoulders and walked away. Your Mum cannot help how she feels and it will bear no reflection on her love for you.

Joolsvernel, My mum was staying with me and one day she said she has had enough and wanted to die. I asked why as she still had my dad, lots of grandchildren and great grandchildren and my sister and I. She said she felt she had, had enough. My dad passed away about a year later and my mum lived for the next 2 years. She was well at the time but went down hill fast, not eating, she got a urine infection which went to her brain. She ended up in hospital then came home with carers in place for 2 months. She had a fall and went into hospital and died of a chest infection 6 days later. That was nearly 3 years ago. The way I cope today is remembering her words she had, had enough and wanted to die she did not suffer too much. I just count my blessings that I had my mum for all those years, she was 86 and I was 65.

Hi Julesverne1 - It's so hard I know, my mum is 92, and is just getting over a bad case of shingles. Even before this she was saying she thought she had lived "too long". Now she's finding everything even more difficult, and I'm so concerned she's not eating or drinking enough. After a recent visit I urged her to try to at least drink more, she said "nothing lasts forever". Health professionals are involved. This week I'm taking her to have some breast lumps investigated, and it's also possible she had the beginnings of Parkinsons. I'm just trying to be there for her. Sometimes health interventions may not be the best or kindest thing for a person...

There’s a lot of different opinions isnt there! But having lived through a similar situation, I can only speak from a place of where I didn’t make the best decisions-I worried too much about why my mother was feeling and behaving the way she was, I was grieving for her -before she had died- because ‘she’ had seemed to have gone, I felt guilty, every way I turned, and yet full of resentment that my mother could put all of that onto my shoulders. What I could have done was not carried it all in the way that I did, and recognised that she wasn’t me. Your mother is an independent person, and has her own freewill. You can only do your best and have no power to control the way she lives-or dies. It is upsetting that she feels the way she does but for some people, there is no way that can be changed. Pay good attention to your own wellbeing during this time, and don’t let her presence consume you.Specifically aim to acquire some peace of mind for yourself, in which ever way makes sense to you, otherwise it will take much too great a toll on your own health.You will grieve now, it’s natural, because in one sense, your mother as you knew her, has gone, so allow that process to unfold and be gentle with yourself.

It is so sad when somebody feels this way.
What I think is even worse is when somebody has dementia and his or her personality has changed so much.
My brother in law is in a Home with this dreadful disease .
My sister was told several years ago that he only had 6months to live.
Three days ago she was told that he only had three days to live.
I hope this time they are right for both their sakes.
I want him to be able to rest in peace and for her to be able to enjoy her life again.
He is 74 years old.

we are all different, stating the obvious.

I am 83, had a good life, looking back, hubby ill, and hospitalized.. I often feel that it is time for me to go, but I seem to have a decent appetite.

my kitten cat keeps me going! who will look after her?

she is used to me...

perhaps we all need to feel really needed/necessary?

Prayers for you and your mum Jools...

This must be so hard for you Joolsvernel but, as other posters have written, many older people do get to the stage of having "had enough".

My mother died some years ago, after a short stay in hospital. She'd not been feeling herself for a while and it was clear when she went in that she did not expect to come out, having seen so many friends in the same situation. On the day she went in she made a point of saying that she'd had a wonderful life and didn't mind if she died, going so far as to ask to have "Do Not Resuscitate" on her notes. She'd simply had enough.

Soon it was revealed that she had a cancer which would eventually kill her. Once she received the news she didn't put up a struggle, dying quickly from pneumonia.

Whilst we were very sad that she had gone we were grateful to her for the memory of her obvious appreciation and enjoyment of her life, her honestly with us, and also that she didn't have a lingering end.

Whilst your story is different in that your mother has no illness, perhaps you can both draw comfort and create memories by talking about the good things that have happened to her during her long lifetime.

My grandad did the same thing at 94, he'd been totally independent till he caught pneumonia 'whilst in hospital for something totally in relented) I went to visit him over Xmas and he kept saying, I've had enough now, I'm tired of life, obviously I talked to him about how much we'd. Miss him and he'd still got a life.. The hospital were going to discharge him as he was well enough to go home again, I had to travel back home to London that next day.. Literally the next day just after everyone had left.. He died peacefully in his sleep!!!

There is tiredness that comes with ageing unlike that from the physical.This is what your mother experiences and perfectly normal. It is hard not to be upset but try not to let her see this. Spend as much time as you can with her and maybe obtain some help yourself understanding how your mother feels and how you can respond .?

My parents were married for 73 years but when my mum went into care for dementia my dad just gave up. He went to hospital for an infection and asked me if it was all right with me if he died. I told him it was up to him. The doctor at the hospital said he would have to go home as everyone else in the ward wanted to get better except him as he was refusing medication. It took about 3 weeks but he died in his sleep peacefully. I have no regrets - maybe I am more pragmatic but it was his will and I would have been being selfish if I had tried to change his mind.

This is a very difficult time for you but you will come out the other side and remember your mum as she was when she was younger.

I don’t really understand her attitude at the age of just 82 with reasonably good health and loving family. Surely this is depression. Most of you are telling her to accept it..I find that the oddest thing about this post ! My mother was still working ...albeit a a desk answering phones for my brothers taxi firm....at the age of 82! extraordinary decision. Im really failing to grasp her ‘decision’. Don’t just give up without trying to convince her that she still has plenty to live for ...show her , her family need her. Try something.

I can perhaps understand this for someone in their late nineties, but 82? Just wrong. Is she being treated for this depression? Because that is what it is. Unless there is another physical illness which we have not been told about. The medical profession should not give up on an 82 year old.

It isn't euthanasia whitewave. There is another word for this, which I am not going to say on this thread.

This is really sad, I know several 82 year olds who are still lively and enjoying life. However, this dear lady has had enough and wants to slip away. Having read through the posts I can't offer any further comments except to send a big hug to you

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Very very difficult but I admire her in a way. Some of the alternatives are pretty grim.

Can I ask about practicalities? Are you close geographically?

Please get some help and support for yourself. Is a hospice an option?