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Care & carers

Will we be made homeless

(86 Posts)
Grandson123 Sat 27-Dec-14 22:44:50

Hi after seeing a lot of helpful information and advice on this forum I'm hoping for abit specific to my situation. So hear goes.

I am 26 and I have lived with my grandparents since the age of 4. My mothers father and his second wife.

My grandfather passed away 4 years ago leaving a fully mortgage free house to his second wife (my gran)

It appears my grandmother is showing signs of a dementia related illness.

I have LPA for financial and health matters.

My wife has moved in along with her 10 year old daughter, after myself and my wife staying at either my grans house or my wife's for the last few years until my wife fell pregnant.

I have never officially moved out so it's been my only home.

I am not an official carer for my gran as she has not had an official diagnosis due to her being stubborn and in denial somewhat. I have tried persuading her but she is adamant there is nothing wrong, so it will be a matter of time before we have no choice but to get some help.

My gran has no savings her only asset is the bungalow.

I am in her will as the only beneficiary.

My wife and I have effectively given up the possibility of having our own home to stay with my gran.

Where do I stand regarding care home costs and what happens to myself, my wife, my daughter and stepdaughter if my gran needs to go into a care home.

Your opinion would be greatly appreciated as it's such a complicated area.

Many thanks

Jane10 Sun 28-Dec-14 09:02:46

Care homes have to be paid for. It's possible, even likely that the local authority would pursue her estate to recover costs. That's when you could be in trouble. In order to keep the house could you just look after her at home yourselves? Not necessarily easy but potentially manageable especially with visiting support which you may be eligible for. Discuss with your Grans GP

Teetime Sun 28-Dec-14 09:56:02

Well I don't think its in anyones interest to make you homeless especially as you are beneficiaries of the will. Funding for care home placements is tricky and complex. In the first instance I think I might get an appointment with Citizens Advice and have a look at the YouGov website.

Mishap Sun 28-Dec-14 10:07:30

It is indeed tricky. Because you are young and fit your rights in this situation are less than if you were disabled or elderly. The strong likelihood is that the bungalow would be regarded as a capital asset for the purpose of care home fees and would either have to be sold or the asset frozen and recovered for the LA after her death.

The only situation in which this might not apply would be if her care qualified to be funded under the NHS (Continuing Care Funding) and for that to apply her needs would need to be medically related rather than social care.

It is extremely complex and you do need detailed legal advice about this - either Age UK or CAB would be the place to start.

Nelliemoser Sun 28-Dec-14 10:28:19

Grandson 123 This is a very complicated situation. You really do need to get proper advice on this situation. Try CAB or look at the age UK website.

From what I understand just living in her house does not entitle you to live there if your Gran needs to go into a home.
I think there are particular age restrictions on this and any local authority would be entitled to ensure that any care home fees would come from the sale of her property.
The local authority would want to ensure that your Gran needs care and would look at a lot of alternatives before deciding she needs full residential care and in most cases she would have to be in agreement.

I would suggest that you think about speaking to you local authority housing office about this.

ninathenana Sun 28-Dec-14 15:14:45

There are various fact sheets available on line or to print on the Alzheimers Society web site. This is a FAQ there. I'm sure you will find the answers your looking for.

Galen Sun 28-Dec-14 15:26:35

Hunter Frank where are you?

Mishap Sun 28-Dec-14 15:57:21

This is the relevant section:

"If you own your home, it may be counted as capital 12 weeks after you move into a residential care or nursing home on a permanent basis. However, your home won't be counted as capital if any of the following people still live there:
your husband, wife, partner or civil partner
a close relative who is 60 or over, or incapacitated
a close relative under the age of 16 who you're legally liable to support
your ex-husband, ex-wife, ex-civil partner or ex-partner if they are a lone parent."

Because you are young and not incapacitated, you do not count under the 2nd section above. So you would be made homeless if your gran goes into a home permanently - you would become homeless either after 12 weeks' stay, or after she dies (if she chooses to delay payment till after death).

If I were you I would plan that you will not be able to stay on in the house if she needs to go into a care home.

You would inherit any capital from the bungalow that had not been spent on care when she dies.

The only way you could inherit the bungalow is if she is cared for at home. Any outside care that needed to be brought in at home would have to be paid for from her pension.

The important thing is that she should receive all the care she needs, and you will probably need advice from Social Services as time goes on, even if she stays at home.

You also need advice from her doctor so that a proper diagnosis can be made and any treatment or help with care (e.g. day hospital to give you and your wife a break) can be put in place.

Even though you have a power of attorney, the bungalow is in her name and is her asset and the LA is entitled to count this as capital for paying for care, wherever it takes place.

Nelliemoser Sun 28-Dec-14 16:23:33

Mishap Thanks for clarifying that, it is roughly what I thought would be the situation.

Grannyknot Sun 28-Dec-14 16:51:05

Yegads, what a complicated system. The mind boggles.

ninathenana Sun 28-Dec-14 17:14:01

Well done Mishap I confess I copped out of typing all that by referring OP to the web site.

NfkDumpling Sun 28-Dec-14 17:48:54

Is your gran with it enough to be persuaded to sell you her house? Provided you are in a position to get a mortgage of course. Sounds silly I know, but it would enable you to all stay in the house and for her to have money for her care.

Obviously, the longer she can stay out of care the better.

There's probably a reason why this can't be done - Mishap?

durhamjen Sun 28-Dec-14 17:53:49

There is, NFK. They see this as a way to avoid care home fees, and they are right. i think if it's done seven years before it's okay, but not in these circumstances.

NfkDumpling Sun 28-Dec-14 17:56:27


There must be a way - it's Grandson's home for Pete's sake!

Nelliemoser Sun 28-Dec-14 18:25:11

I am concerned about this scenario in general.

I will look at this as a (?an) hypothetical situation as I do not know the actual details. This is not her Grandsons home as he has no rights to the property. I assume he is living there just by the goodwill of his grandmother. Does he pay rent or part of the running costs of the house?

Any older person should be very careful about granting or allowing ownership to a relative without very good legal advice.

I know nothing about this particular situation but when working I encountered more than one situation where a parent had thrown in her money with her children and bought a property in Spain or such only to be sent home when she started getting forgetful and needing care, dumping the onus back on the local authority.
As it happened the nearest airport to that local authority where the older person used to live was just over a county border further complicating the situation about who had financial responsibility.

It is sad but sometimes vulnerable relatives get manipulated and financially abused in situations like this.

Mishap Sun 28-Dec-14 18:52:31

This what you need to read - it is a legal minefield. Basically, if you are thought to have disposed of assets (e.g transferred your home into you GS's name) for the purpose of not having to pay for care in the future, the LA will means test you as if you still have those assets - and the GS would then be in a fine mess.

The legal niceties are around proving that the house was given to him for that purpose. A lot of that centres around when it was done - i.e. how late in the day. If it had happened 30 years ago then you might be OK, but now that grandma is beginning to show signs of needing care in the near future, they are probably on to a loser.

It does not matter that he is the heir in the will - as long as the lady is alive, they are her assets.

I think the OP does need some legal advice in order to get it right. It will cost him, but, given the amounts at stake, would probably be worth it.

As I said before the only other way around it, so that he can inherit the bungalow according to his grandmother's wishes, is for any care she might need to be paid for by the NHS, but the rules about that are very stringent and another minefield in their own right.

But - if he BUYS the house from her, then all is well, as she will have the proceeds of the sale available to pay for her care. He would then inherit the remainder of that money after her death, assuming she had not used it all for care. Beware - the LA might smell a rat if she sells it to him substantially below the market price! His only hope in that situation would be that he could say in all honesty that his gran lives with him (rather than the other way round) and hope no-one asks too much about the history!

Boy am I glad I am not a social worker any more! Telling people this stuff did not make me flavour of the month!

Mishap Sun 28-Dec-14 18:52:58

And was definitely not what I went into social work to do!

Grandson123 Sun 28-Dec-14 20:09:18

Firstly thanks for everyone's responses it's greatly appreciated ...

Secondly nelliemoser I will ask you politely to refrain from posting on this thread as what you have written has annoyed me very much as it's completely wrong and actually I have taken great offence to you suggesting anything of the sort ...

For the person who asked me and my wife are sorting out all bills do asking my gran only for a contribution towards them , I have also refitted new carpets through the whole house which I paid for.

I have tried to get her to the doctors for a 'routine check up' but she refuse on the day to go, and I have been advised by her doctor that I am powerless until something happens which outside help would be needed.

Faye Sun 28-Dec-14 20:12:12

Why do I have the uncomfortable feeling that you are hoping Grandson123, that your GM has dementia. She may be forgetful but not everyone ends up with dementia, nor does everyone want to end up in a care home to make way for their GC. She would be aware that you want her diagnosed so that she can go into care and you can continue to live in her home with your new family.

You say you have given up the chance to have your own home to look at your gran though your history shows you have only ever lived at your GM's and your wife's house. Now you are back again at your GM's house, you have never attempted to live in your own home. Is your GM happy with the arrangement of your wife and her child moving in? Your GM must be feeling pressured while you look at ways of putting her into care and keeping her house for yourself. It appears to me you want her house and you want her out as soon as possible. It must be awful for her to be told she has dementia and needs to move out of her home.

All I can say is she is not dead yet, you are not entitled to move her out and keep her house.

Faye Sun 28-Dec-14 20:17:14

We crossed posts Grandson123 I think I was right. By the way you shouldn't be asking your GM for any contribution to bills as it appears you are living there rent free and it is after all her house. You put in new carpets, big deal, you are enjoying the benefits of her house. confused

Grandson123 Sun 28-Dec-14 20:20:26

Thanks Faye for that disgusting post ....again I take great offence to what you have posted and you should be ashamed of yourself ...

I am a 26 year old man who has taken it upon myself to continue to care and help for my gran, I do not have to I could easily leave the property with "my new family" and get on with living my life but I haven't , do you know how stressful it is trying to help someone who doesn't want the help but desperately needs it, if you spent a day in my life you would apologise for what you posted...

I am the only of my family my gran has, as her own daughter hasn't spoke to her for 20 years and lives in America...and I am the one she doesn't trust when I have do e nothing but try and help her ...I have come on here for Advice not to be accused of trying to 'get rid' of my FAMILY to better myself

NfkDumpling Sun 28-Dec-14 20:21:44

Either way the longer Gran lives at home with family support the better all round.

Grandson - have you thought of becoming a dementure friend? There's a training video to show how to help cope. My DD1 says she did 'in preparation' - I am getting a little forgetful (!) - she's got the badge and everything!

NfkDumpling Sun 28-Dec-14 20:23:46

Don't take offence if we get suspicious. We have cause to from other new posters who haven't been straight.

Grandson123 Sun 28-Dec-14 20:25:53

My gran Begged me for my wife and step daughter to move in as my grandfather passed she has been lonely and as I wasn't sitting in the living room with her everyday she felt better with people in the house more ...

You say I'm enjoying the benefits of her house you realise that my 'new family' is currently living in 2 rooms of a house and you think I'm reaping the benfits do you get a grip we have a spare bedroom as our living room my new baby doesn't have a bedroom and won't whilst we live here but I am here because nobody else cares about my gran....

Grandson123 Sun 28-Dec-14 20:34:38

Also FAYE you say big deal to buying carpets throughout but when the boiler went pop last year who paid for it when it costs £2500 I did ..but I want a free ride don't it ...the cheek