Frustrated with mum refusing help.

So sorry about this - so much like my late MIL. Her behaviour was almost exactly the same. She needed help but didn't want help and this turns your relationship into a battle.
We resorted to 'secret cleaning' when we put the kettle on but even this had to be abandoned. Her previous vibrant nature turned into aggression.
Due to too may falls she had to go into a home, she had two types of dementia. She was looked after and was safe but never really settled. It has to said that her death was a release for her and a relief for us. If you were French I'd say 'bon courage' as you may well have to go down the same route which is certainly not the easy way out - but it can put your mind at rest about her welfare.

Tell her if she doesn't accept help in keeping her home clean that eventually the social services will step in and remove her choices altogether - they'll probably declare her incompetent to make her own decisions. That would be much worse for an independent-minded person than just compromising on a few hours cleaning. Personally I think it should be her choice if she wants to live in a dirty hovel - it's her home and her life. BUT it is actually true that the authorities can intervene and overrule and it's only fair that she takes that fact into account.

My mother is like this too. If you find the way to overcome stubbornness, let me know.
The worst was that my mother refused to stop driving and got cross if there was any mild suggestion that she should consider it. She lost all sense of perspective about it. She told me that she was better driving because when she walked she fell over but she didn't when she was driving. This was after she had lost most of the use in one hand. Thankfully a cleaner she had at the time borrowed her car and it ended up impounded and I persuaded Mum to sell it rather than pay the impound fees.
Her stubbornness now is about money. She was upset one day that she might have to move. For once she was open about her finances and I realised that she was only about £50-£100 short but when I offered to help she turned nasty. I didn't speak to her for a while and when I did I made her promise to let me help rather than move (she has moved 4 times since she was 85 and it is too much for her to do it now and she will end up somewhere horrible). She did but I know that she won't. She will just cut down on her carers instead.
It is hard for you to accept that she is living the way she chooses. Independence becomes so important when people get older and even minor transgression as seen as an attack on that.

That's not easy for you Seaside, that's not good is it .?Oddly enough the one very sensible thing my mum did was give up driving in her early 80s after a minor accident caused by her.It shook her up terribly and she stopped there and then,stating she lived on a bus routes, could take the odd taxi and to carry on would be selfish as she knew her judgement and capability wasn't the same.I very much admired her for that.Forward a decade and she whenher garden umbrella blew into next doors garden, and rather than wait for them to get home,there's no way round the side ,she scales over the hedge,then nearly kills herself trying to get back !I think also she experienced my dad driving far longer than he was fit to,and that made her resolve not to be a danger to the public.
Sounds a bit drastic but when DHs aunt's driving deteriorated to the point she was gaining notoriety in the village DH had a quiet word with the GP,who at her next appointment advised her not to drive,the DVLA was informed and the new car sold all very quickly.She accepted it from the doctor,but wouldn't have done from family.

That last paragraph didn't come out quite the way I meant it.
I meant that it is hard for anyone just to accept that parents are living the way they want when it is not safe or hygienic rather than as a criticism of you.

I so sympathise. My darling mum went down hill so fast when Dad passed away - and we realised he had been covering up for some terrible behaviour. She would wander the streets at night in a terrible area, bang cars with a walking stick to cross a busy road (the police would pick her up and take her home to her sheltered accommodation and I was endlessly dealing with it at work or home - as a single mum it was hard looking after her and my kids) I'd make meals, put in freezer on days I couldn't call in - only to find she would take them all our put on radiators and would eat them crawling with maggots. She said she would kill herself if we tried to ur her in a home - but was so lovingly looked after for the next 5 years (she did develop full dementia) my sisters and I were sorry we were not hard enough to do it earlier. Why not ask the sheltered or next step residential home, if she could stay there when you are doing the upgrade - some have rooms for relatives and she might enjoy the company and the ambience and make the decision to move in herself? Re careers and cleaning. When you or your brothers call don't stay in take her shopping or for lunch - and get the cleaners to do their work. You will end up angry, exhausted and resentful as I did (one sister lived abroad the other never visited). Enjoy the time you have left with your Mum but do ask for help from social services and other charities out there like Age UK. We are all getting older and these intergenerational problems sadly getting more common so don't carry it on your own shoulders.

This is very familiar to me.. 2 siblings with far less practical input than me..to,put it mildly .. a mother in her 90s who hung onto her independence by a thread ..her self care was deteriorating ..it’s part of old age ..and she was also at risk .we had carers but between the visits there was an accident waiting to happen. I wont elaborate but the personal hygiene and bathroom habits were grim..again part of old age ..and there were safety risks. The odd fall, Gas left on Tap running etc.
She never wanted to go in a Care home but there came a point when she became aware that things couldn’t go on as they were and we suggested a ,week.. as a holiday ..to,try it out.. and she never cam e out.. she has become somewhat institutionalised but she’s nurtured fed and has nursing care onsite.she is reasonably contented .
Dont know your personal circumstances.this home costs a fortune but my mum has funds.
It wassuch a stress for me waiting for the next accident, finding,out eharing aids and teeth .. cleaning up , doing shopping, washing and a cause of family conflict so its money well spent.
Do you have a power of attorney in place ? She cannot make her own decisions..she thinks she can but she can’t.
I would suggest if you can afford it to start by getting in a carer for a hour a day ..tell her they are there to help ..they are used to difficult non receptive old ladies..
and discuss with siblings the POA ..and with her..tell her it’s to make decisions and manage things for her ..if she doesn’t feel like doing it herself.. you have to skirt round everything .she can’t see what you see.
Good luck .

My Mum was like that, Washerwoman, & pushed helped from famiky and friends away with anger. Yest occasionally she’d moan about having no support. I think she was fed up with living, especially if she couldn’t keep the level of independence she wanted. She suddenly decided to move into a retirement flat & hated that she couldn’t do it all ouselves, watched us slogging our guts out and hadn’t told us she’d paid for a full service move. She was so rude and nasty to us. Ten days after moving she got her wish, went to bed and didn’t wake up. She was 91 & fit to the end. As it was a weekend, the Manager of the flats wasn’t on duty so no one knew and we raised the alarm when she didn’t answer the phone. We knew she’d be angry if she was OK and she just hadn’t bothered to answer the phone. I used to worry that people thought we didn’t care but I’d got over that by the time she died as I knew we’d done everything we could. Anger at things she did and said over many years has meant I haven’t shed a tear once since she died 2 years ago & I’m not a hard hearted person.

washerwoman I do empathise we had exactly the same situation with MIL who dies 2 years ago now at a week off her 102 birthday. The last ten years were a catalogue of hospital admissions with no diagnosis of any note but a failure to cope. She resisted all our attempts to make her life more comfortable and safe and to make things worth my oldest BIL colluded with her as he didn't want her to spend any money on care. As a nurse I recognised the signs of ischaemic change in her as her personality changed becoming more and more uncooperative and DH would often say its juts not my mother she has changed. When she died with a diagnosis of dementia which had never been mentioned before BIL did his nut which didn't help. I do feel for you and I'm sorry I cant suggest anything as everything I did came to nought as she thwarted all my personal help and professional help that I had spent hours organising. I hope things get better for you and that she starts to be more cooperative.

My mum would not have any help of any sort in the house, she had four daughters and they could care for her. Fair enough but we all lived scatted around the country with young families and full time jobs. Enough said she was a nightmare and I am ashamed to say I felt re
If when it suddenly ended. I am now coping with a disabled daughter who seems to have followed in mums footsteps but luckily she has good care and if she chooses not always to use it so be it. I hope it all works out for you.

Washerwoman That is a good point. Older people do see to accept what the doctor says.
When I asked my mother said something about driving and I asked about her responses she said 'the doctor didn't tell me that I can't drive so you can't tell me that I can't drive'. I am sure that it didn't occur to them that a woman who had just had a near fatal head injury, had lost the use of one arm and could not walk without a walker, would go and get in a car.
I think it should be a standard question for doctors to ask elderly people about driving and not just assume that they won't be doing it.

Perhaps you do need to back off a bit and your brother who is an occasional visitor has the right idea. I would suggest that she gets an alarm so she can call if she needs assistance, maybe make that a concession? Also get a cleaner in, just because one didn't work does not mean to say another won't. Even if this person just keeps an eye on things it will be worth it. Then pop in once a week and see how it goes. You are all driving yourselves into the ground and it does not seem to be getting you anywhere.

radicalnan I had forgotten about the 'driving' problem. Having had to collect my father from a police station in the New Forest at roughly 4am one night after he'd clipped another vehicle and failed to stop (I lived in NW London), I left his car there and that was the end of his driving! It wasn't the first time the police had rung me but it was a light bulb moment when I realised he had Alzheimer's. I'm embarrassed to admit my ignorance. He had always been eccentric, difficult etc etc. He died a couple of years later by which time he was living in a care home!

Getting old isn't for wimps!

Washerwoman - I do feel for you. However, my 97 year old mother lives in sheltered housing and I think you might be viewing it through rose coloured glasses. Yes, she has a help cord , they do run a bus to the supermarket once a week, there is a cafe for lunch and some social events but that is it. Sheltered housing is designed for independent living so the cleaning problems would only arise all over again. My husband’s aunt lived in SH and when she died her kitchen was so filthy my husband told me not to go in and he emptied it. I also know what you are going through with your siblings. My younger sister says ‘we work together’ which means I work round her and accommodate what she wants to do with mum. Unfortunately there is no easy answer to your problems . You are trying to do the best for your mother but she doesn’t want help. I’m not sure a new kitchen is the answer. Clearly what she needs is a regular cleaner which my mother has for 2hours a week and she changes the bed, not me.
Have you considered involving her GP and getting an assessment by occupational health? But it would only be worth doing this if your mother will accept help.

It's difficult to differentiate between stubbornness and dementia at that age. Unfortunately, judging from my own experience, it sounds like it might be the latter. We always put my nanna and mil's awkwardness down to old age and grumpiness - turns out it was start of dementia.

To those who have children who are near enough, caring enough and willing to help, please be very grateful. It's fine to try to be independent when old age takes it's toll however, the lasting memories our children have of us are so important. My sincere sympathies go out to all the above messages.
Our children are hundreds of miles away or overseas. We are both in our 80's and oh how I would appreciate not only a little help but "hugs" which are so important!

My dad is 90 and it has been difficult to get him to do what he is told. It takes a long time to get used to the fact that we become the parent.
Long story short, I and others in the family told him if he didn't do this that or the other, then Drs and Social services would want to put him in a home and that terrifies him. He has always stated that he leaves his house in a wooden box, end of.
Harsh I know but you have to do things for their own safety and well being sometimes. I find people of his age have some respect for some sort of authority figure Dr etc.
If I told him to do his exercises and move, nothing, but If I ask the district nurse to tell him to do his exercise bingo!!
We did the same with power of attorney, we told him the horror stories of social services deciding he can't look after himself and his house would be used to care for him without us being able to do anything. We have both poa's now and we all very relieved as he was ill a while ago, and we knew he was safe with us being able to carry out his wishes. He is back at home now and much more amenable to our suggestions, and pleas of do your exercises, tell us if your unwell.
Dad was always very in control, and I didn't want outsiders coming in and taking over.
So maybe take the point that if hygiene levels aren't kept to a certain level and a Dr comes in for a visit, they may 'do' something. Collude with whoever comes into see her, to get them to ask her to do certain things, it helped a lot
I'm afraid you have to get sneaky, with these feisty old ones

Yes washerwoman, her driving is a nightmare, we have frequent discussions about why she shouldn't drive, but then the next day she'll be off out again, I could scream sometimes, and feel like giving up and just let her get on with it at least she does only drive the half a mile to the nearest shops, but she had an accident last year her fault, but still insists she's safe.Her memory now is very poor, but her anxiety levels are high, she rings us and family members constantly wanting to know our whereabouts, another big problem.Hope you can get through to your mum, without causing too much upset, I know how difficult it is.

The GP told my mum not to drive any more and she handed the car keys over there and then. Older people seem to heed 'the doctor' as long as they're not too obviously youngsters!
In Scotland there's financial PoA and welfare PoA. This came in handy with mum and MiL.
I think I've learned a lot from the issues around mum and MiL. I've already apologised in advance to my DCs in case I become (even more of) a pain in the neck. I especially don't want to be left in my own home when I can't realistically cope. I like a bit of company so if the time comes I'll be up for sheltered housing or a care home.

Seaside22 chewing gum in the ignition lock? Facetious I know but she can do what she likes to injure herself but she could potentially take out a whole family...

Aside from the driving which puts others at risk? I sympathise with the resistant older people, however frustrating this is for their families.
As adults we are used to running our own lives, making our own decisions and feeling respected within our families and communities.
As parents we are used to being treated with dignity and hopefully held up as a good example of how to be as an adult.suddenly we find ourselves loosing that respect, and dignity, and often feeling patronised by the younger generations; whether that’s carers, professionals, or family, however unintentionally!
Our society projects an image of valuing youth and vitality, it does not make older people feel valued. so it’s no wonder that people, as they go into these later years, dread the process and fight against the loss of power.
Reading these posts makes me dread getting to the stage where my own children would take over and tell me what to do! I know they would do so trying to work for my best interests but I too am very independent and don’t like being told how I should live my life? I can’t imagine that I will find it any easier the older I get?

Mine is like that. Wants to be independent, but the difference is she moans all the time about her lot.

She bit my head off when I suggested she has a cleaner, but eventually gave in after my sil suggested it.

I leave her alone now and never suggest or comment on anything, and I've stopped worrying about it because I know there's nothing I can say.

Well said Jane 10.
Lots of useful things here BUT please everyone if you have anything to do with anyone who shouldn’t be driving please think!! You are equally responsible for not doing something to stop some horrific accidents before they happen.
These are becoming so common with unfit elder drivers and dare I say in automatic cars that they just mishit the pedals.

Oh dear! I have every sympathy. I cared for my mum from 200 miles away [I'm an only child] and it wasn't easy to get help or for her to accept it. She did keep herself clean and she had a fantastic cleaning lady who did her best to sort through her fridge as well as vac but it wasn't easy as mum kept calling her back as she thought of something else to say......Mum also needed dental care and an optician. I organised these for her and she cancelled both appointments apparently preferring to remain in discomfort even though I was willing to be with her. Very frustrating! It was a very difficult situation as although we didn't get on particularly well she was my mum and I did worry about her. She'd given my dad a hard time on many occasions but she wanted to be independent for as along as possible and there wasn't a lot I could do about it - she wouldn't come to leave near us; I did try to encourage her.
Good luck. Remember you can only do what you can do!!!

I know an old lady who swallowed a fly just wouldn't admit that she was a danger on the road. She was, and even in the very short journeys she was taking, she could have killed someone. Her family "lost" her car. She was very upset about it, and brought up the subject every day, but at least other road users were safe from her. When I worked in a primary school, an elderly chap, his girlfriend and his car ended up dangling over our playground when he crashed straight through the fence after his slipper (!) got stuck under a pedal as he drove out of the carpark across the road. Nobody was hurt, but it could have been a horrendous accident.