Are our views always entrenched?

I was deleted for saying 'twisted', isn't calling someone dishonest worse?

I didn't say you were dishonest - I said to suggest I had used a word when I haven't is dishonest debating. I know you are very honest.

OMG!

I haven't contributed to this thread much but I've read it and I shake my head in admiration.

I've been reading this thread and I think members who are objecting to it should just stop following it!

jura, going back to your post of 12:31 in reply to my asking what would incentivise you to move out of your home, I didn't mean that you should. I asked the question as a kind of thought experiment for you (and anyone else who wanted to try it) because, in all seriousness, if there were an incentive that would work with you (or me), it would probably work for others too. For such a thought experiment, we'd jave to assume other things were equal (jobs in the area, etc.). So, really, all I was suggesting really was that we treat others as we would like to be treated.

If councils or national government can come up with really good, attractive incentives to get people to move to ease the shortage of family housing, well and good. But the alternative of simply governing better and making sure there is enough accommodation of the right type for the population (or the projected (aging) population) would be preferable in my view.

Successive governments have botched is the long and the short of it.

moved, just for info, as I didn't see the deleted posts either (been out at archery practice), it's within the rules to say a post is "twisted" (or whatever) but not to say that the person posting is twisted. Hope that helps.

Absolutely pointless distinction!

Perhaps, lily, but them's the rules whether we like them or not!

Save your breath to cool your porridge, Bags. This thread has passed through several subjects and housing has been left behind long ago. It is now an arena for infighting and private references to old sores.

If the posters would stop picking at them they would have a chance to heal, but it looks as though they enjoy the experience so much they can't stop. I came back to see whether there was any sane discussion but I see I was over-optimistic.

A plague on both all your houses. Go and hire a field and some duelling pistols and do some Mutually Assured Destruction. While you are busy with that perhaps posters without axes to grind could discuss fair and practical ways to house people without discrimination or recriminations. Preferably on another thread.

Actually, I don't think it's a pointless distinction. After all, one might argue something which someone then said was stupid and convinced you by their argument that it was. You could then agree and say you hadn't thought of that and thank you.

All in the spirit of good debate.

But if someone said you (one) was stupid, it'd be harder to come to agreement.

That's my take on it anyhow, for what it's worth. I find this has served me well.

Here's me tacking and gybing away to get away from the personal scores, elegran . Hey ho.

Are you less offended when someone says what you say (or what you think) is silly than if they say you (one) is silly? Calling people names, yes, rude and offensive. Saying they are stupid, ignorant, unkind.........? Or their opinions?

Knowing when to retire from the lists and let the principals get on with it is a life-saving ability Bags Keeping the peace can only be done for a while, then the bystanders save their own skins and let the combatants continue with the real quarrels. I have baled out, suggest you do too.

I think there is an important difference between saying an idea is silly and saying a person is silly. It's quite possible for an intelligent person to entertain silly ideas. I know I have at times, and I've been glad to be better informed. There's a skill in saying an idea is silly without upsetting someone, of course, but it can be done. (Not saying I'm particularly good at it but I do try to attack ideas rather than people).

Don't worry, elegran, the thread has moved on. I expect lily and I will politely agree to differ, as usual

Is there room in the lifeboat for me - I can't stand any more either.

I started this thread hoping for a genuine debate,as I have had about religion, but it was hijacked for personal reasons.

Lifebelts for all, Greatnan, unless passengers push one another into the shark-infested water while fighting to be the first to grab one.

Moved, no idea what was in your post and why it was deleted. I've been out having supper with friends and was hoping to find a reply to my question, which was is it better to build/renovate flats in towns as wisely proposed, for older and younger people, and for families. But sadly nobody has replied.

Second homes are privately owned and paid for by the buyer, and therefore has nothing to do with this equation. What someone is alluding to, I think, is that we have a small flat in the UK, for when we come and visit friends, grandchildren and family, and in case we ever get too old to live out in the sticks in the old house here- and that is, I am afraid nobody's business. Tax payers are not asked to contribute, are they? I totally refuse to feel embarrassed or ashamed about this, really.

We do not live in Switzerland because it is a tax haven for certain expats - only very rich ones get a tax deal, and certainly not in our County- which is one of the highest tax area in CH, because 50% of the population has some kind of benefit or other due to low wages. A huge difference I think to coming to live here to be near my parents and look after them, in my birthplace - to intentionally moving to a tax haven for the very purpose of not paying tax in UK. Or is it just me who thinks there is a big difference. Certainly no Champagne parties here, I can assure you- but plenty of community use of our old Vicarage by all, young and old. Wonderful.

Chuck a lifebelt over here, would you, elegran.

Thanks so much!

Don't drop it.

There is a long line attached, so you can be hauled back to the lifeboat if you drift too far. The whistle is good and loud, blow it if you need a helicopter rescue.

OR families ?

Nicely secured around my middle, thanks, elegran. Haul away!

Elegran and B - You've both given me a fit of the giggles.

Welcome aboard! I take it you don't mind taking an oar? This lifeboat is heavy laden and we need to get under way soon, before the storms return.

Butty Stop giggling and get behind that oar. Now all row together .. in ....out.....KEEP TOGETHER AND STOP CATCHING CRABS.