Ding Dong .... round 2

Never mind Scotland giving their people a vote to become independent, why can't we British have the same vote given to us, do we want to remain with Scotland.

You ask if I would feel the same about devolution ( independence) and Europe. May I just point out that I have not expressed my views on independence therefore can hardly be rallying support for Salmond. I have simply said that faced with a number of choices, like the rest of the UK we have to consider all possibilities. As far as I am concerned BNP, UKIP and Conservatives are complete non-starters.
Have lost faith in LibDem and Labour , both of which I have supported in the past.
With or without independence SNP have done a good left-of-centre job and I largely agree with their social policies.
I shall decide in due course how to vote in the referendum and in subsequenrt parliamentary elections whether for Westminster or Holyrood.
I have absolutely no say in what may or may not happen in England in future but hope I'd show some tolerant interest, rather than just dismiss the issue with 'never mind what's happening in England'.

I think that UKIP have gained popularity for exactly the same reasons. That people have lost faith in the rest. I think, I meant the people of Scotland, rather than you personally mcem What is the feeling there. Would independence mean that you could stay in the EU and would it make a difference if you found you could not do so? I'm about as far away from Scotland as you can get in UK. How I would love the Isle of Wight to become independent!

You're asking the same questions as I am.
Until I know about our potential status in Europe ( I prefer IN to OUT) and also know more about the currency issues, I'm reserving judgement.
My DGD will turn 17 in July and will vote in the referendum. I am aware that her vote is almost more significant than mine as she'll live with the consequences longer than I will.
Although we've discussed the importance of registering that vote, I don't know how she'll vote or whether she'll tell me. My DS will definitely vote to stay in the UK. As for others in the family, I don't know.

No matter how good a job the SNP has been doing - and I do applaud their social policies- in an independent Scotland, they may, in an election under a fair voting system, they may either lose power or be involved in a coalition.I don't think the Tories would ever stand much chance, and any coalition in Scotland would inevitably be left of centre. No wonder the Tories are using scare tactics to bring about a 'No' vote.

PS Ninny. Your reference to 'we British' is deeply offensive to us Scots were born British and consider ourselves British. I for one am proud to be Scots and proud to carry a British passport.

The usual "British=English" misconception. If the Scots, Welsh or N Irish mixed up the two they would be accused of arrogance for thinking that they represented all of Britain.

Anno I do agree with all you've said. I deliberately avoided commenting on the we british remark as I was a bit unsure if there was a hidden agenda. Excluding Scotland from the UK as a whole or an attempt to sidestep the little Englander tag?
Some posters seem to see this whole independence discussion as no more than an aggressive tactic to irritate England instead of an issue worthy of serious thought and rational debate.

I, for one, don't feel that way and am genuinely interested in all that is happening. I think the situation in Scotland is similar to the EU question in the UK. Not enough is known about the pros and cons. A lot of hype from the extremes, but not a lot of discussion about the things that really matter and need consideration. Their non-discussion makes me feel that there are things they would rather we didn't know.

Exactly, Experigran. A lot of issues (in both cases) seem to be glossed over, or deemed by the powers-that-be not to be matters the public should be concerned about. I get the feeling that there are some things that it will be impossible to sort out until after a referendum result is determined.

Assume that the Scots vote yes to independence in September. What will happen? The UK as we know it will be finished and the separation of functions will commence in preparation for the act of independence in 2016. But before that comes the 2015 UK general election in which voting in Scotland would be unacceptable because Scotland will very soon be a foreign country. This raises serious electoral issues for the rest of the UK with many far reaching consequences, of which the Pound, EU, oil and defence are just a few. There are so many of these things to be sorted out that I forsee armies of lawyers making a fortune out of this for a very long time. I do hope that adequate preparations are being made for all this, otherwise there is likely to be chaos.

Alternatively, we will become the United States of Europe and whether we consider ourselves collectively one State, or four - England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland will make not a scrap of difference and the whole exercise will be a waste of time and immaterial. Honesty is what is required and I cannot understand why there is so little. I wonder if the United States of America went through these insecurities and fears before uniting.

mcem, it's great to have a voice from Scotland contributing to this discussion. I appreciated your summary of your own thinking, and that of others close to you. I still hope that Scotland doesn't separate, but I can understand the arguments for independence. I live in the north west, and have commented previously, that I can see benefits to the north generally, of joining an independent Scotland.
Poposcar's points about what happens at the 2015 election are interesting. My biggest worry about Scottish independence is losing the contribution of what could be called slightly left leaning politicians and citizens to the debate in the UK. I feel the north is like another country these days. Asda are hoping to break into the London market, and I heard an interviewer on Radio 4 this week suggest that Asda had "a very northern image". The implication was it was too flat cap and whippet to appeal to sophisticated Londoners. If we can't be a united country, fear we are simply part of a European state make me

I wish the very best of luck to Scotland, but I've been trying to work out some of the consequences for ROUK after Scottish independence, should they get it. Assuming for the moment that Wales and Northern Ireland want to stay onboard, I'm concerned about the resulting parliamentary swing in favour of the Tories. This could result in an increase in political polarisation and social and geographic divisions. Perhaps also a rise in isolationism, sectarianism and, unfortunately, racism of all sorts. Other things like the new ROUK flag and title come to mind (United Kindom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland?) Let's hope it all goes swimmingly. We shall see!

If Scotland gets independence you will not be British.

Why not, Ninny, as far as I am concerned I was born British and will remain British, of English and Scottish extraction. After all, Irish people describe themselves as Irish whether from Eire or Northern Ireland. The Scots are free to call themselves what they like, though I did read somewhere that the word 'Scot' comes from the Pictish word for foreigner.

Ninny if Scotland were to vote for independence, why would that change the status of papaoscar?

Presumably paposcar's passport would no longer proclaim the holder as being a British Citizen if issued in Scotland.

"It would be 'extremely difficult' for independent Scotland to join EU, says European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso".

Would we have to have border controls if Scotland declares itself an independent country but isn't allowed to join the EU?

Apologies if I got that wrong papaoscar. From the wording of your posts I did not think that you lived in Scotland despite your heritage. If I'm right then you won't be entitled to vote but you'll obviously hold on to your roots!
The anti-scottish gibes are reappearing unfortunately. This thread was showing an interesting balance with rational comments, questions and replies from virtually all contributors.

So many things which need to be discussed with those involved. Votes on both Scottish Independence and membership of the EU should be made, not on emotional issues, but in knowledge of the full facts and consequences of doing so. A simple 'Yes' 'No' referendum does not really fit the bill.

What jibes? My question was serious.

I haven't seen any 'anti-Scottish' comments on this thread at all, in fact!

No Ana your contributions definitely come under the interesting and rational comments and questions heading.
I'm afraid I was referring back to comments along the us and them lines and, given previous experiences on some GN threads was just a bit wary that this one might follow suit.

Sorry - it's so easy to get paranoid on here!