I don't know what to do...

Gagsville this virus can be in your system for a week before it shows itself and this is where the danger has been. We're all different in that some can display symptoms within 3 days but with many it's 5 days to a week.

A lot of older people are very stoic especially those who have lived through the 2ndworld war. Unfortunately this enemy is 'unseen'. I think they are a marvellous generation as a whole. They should maybe take more care though?

Ellen Vannin, excuse my ignorance and thanks for the info. How are you coping with this?

Daffydilly it must be so hard for both of you when you are both still grieving. Perhaps you could take up your husband's offer, or visit once before self-isolation wearing a mask and keep well away from your father, just to make sure he is ok and has shopping. If you decide it would be best not to, phone and Skype/WhatsApp if he is able. Leave his shopping and some treats outside and blow kisses at each other through the window! Marydoll try not to look for more than there is in this situation. We won't find out and excessive worrying won't help you - easy to say I know. I went to the care home yesterday to see an elderly relative and it was open to visitors. They are sensitive to the fact that the elderly residents need to see family and friends so have asked that we reduce visits, and never go if feeling unwell. That seems sensible, as do the PM's/CMO bulletins about what care to take. They seem to be looking to proceed in an orderly, calm fashion to limit the risk to the elderly and ill. There is no doubt that younger people will catch this disease (our family was ill at Christmas and us oldies for weeks), and perhaps that will help prevent a resurgence later. We can only trust medical advice and do what is asked of us but your doctor - like the media - is wrong to frighten you like he did.

I am so sorry - we are all at war as Macron said. I am in lockdown in rural France and will miss the birth of my first grandchild. Communication is essential I think and we are so much better off in that respect than previous generations at war and enforced distance from loved ones. Bon courage. X

I am usually a pretty upbeat person but feeling very down today, and close to tears. I think it has just hit me that it could be a while before I see family and beloved GC again. Thankfully the whole family was with my mum two weeks ago, celebrating her 90th birthday, but with DH and myself in the vulnerable category we have had to wipe the calendar clean for the foreseeable future.

I am a carer for my 101 yr old Mum who lives alone, although luckily only a 5 min drive away. However My DH and I are both over 70 ourselves and have no choice but to go out to see her and do the shopping for her. She is reasonably healthy (!) and does everything for herself apart from going out. What a dilemma in what to do for the best, not an easy decision.

micmc47 I think the corona virus came here to the UK, and probably other countries, long before it was announced as such.
For example, in January, thousands of Chinese students returned to University from China after going home for Chinese New Year. I know of cases of people working with them who had very a bad flu-like illness with severe coughing for up to 3 weeks in late January. Others I know had the "coughing flu" for a few days in January or February. Nobody knew what it was and most did not go to the Doctor. Most now believe they had COVID19 as their symptoms match the list.

We cannot tell when this silent virus came to each country from China or even elsewhere. We know people can be infected and not feel particularly ill, carrying on with their daily life as usual. We only know the first diagnosed cases after it had been recognised. There would have been many cases which might have been symptom free or so mild it was unremarkable and others like the people I know who had "something" which in hindsight they see had the same symptoms, but at the time they did not know about covid19's symptoms and dangers.
As for saying a lot of science goes behind the PM's announcements! The trouble has been, particularly at the start, our PM ignored advice from very eminent leaders in the fields of virology and epidemiology and did not follow their advice, thus not containing the virus' spread. Think of the questions about why we were not doing what Ireland or France were doing? Think of the terrible fudging explanation about flattening the curve. This could only be done by stopping social contact not by letting people mix! Now he's had to say that the numbers of those ill and needing help has risen more quickly and much higher than "they" anticipated! So no flattening of the curve then, but a sudden steep rise! Which he was told would happen due to his measures! It is far too late to close this stable door now. Thousands upon thousands will die needlessly and before their time simply because our PM and his government did not listen to the experts.

It's time Johnson stood down and an inter-party committee with experts in virology and epidemiology and psychology was formed to lead us through this crisis. Daily bulletins need to be made by an intelligent, informed and comprehendible person. Not by a bumbling stammering bluffing idiot who only wants the lime light and changes his plans so many times we get dizzy and leaves people more confused after he has spoken than before.

But my point remains micmc47, nobody knows when this virus arrived in the UK and nobody knows the number of people who had it before it was properly recognised as this virus.

Maybe, if the government wanted to understand it better, they could ask people to send in their data as to whether they were ill prior to the beginning of March, say. They could ask, symptoms, dates, duration, whether a medic was consulted, did the person go out, did they mix, etc...

I understand your dilemma. Here in the states all the schools are closed until April 13. Mom is 91 and I am 70. My single daughter can’t work as there is no one to care for children. I can’t see mom or daughter or grandkids as mom and I are in the high risk group. They tell us to be six feet away from another person if we have to go out .
All they keep saying is to wash our hands. There is no hand sanitizer left. DaffydillyDo you have hand sanitizer? Use that between customers.

I understand you are trying to reassure me, justwokeup, but I am a very sensible person, not prone to panic attacks or overworrying.
I have a logical and analylitical brain and I have read some of the the scientific papers on this. My GP was not wrong, he was very matter of fact. I already knew how much at risk I was, you do not know what my comorbidities are and that my prognosis before this wasn't good anyway. The odds are stacked against me, but who knows, I may rise again!
It was actually having all this confirmed yesterday, which really upset me, I just kept putting it to the back of my mind.

I have just has a phone call from the cardiac dept, they are going to do my appointment by phone next week, as it's not advisable for me to be out and about.
I have three pairs of jeans to alter for my daughter, so she will now get them this week, instead of waiting for ages. Every cloud has a silver lining.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Has anyone any advice and ideas as to how to explain to a three year old why her grandparents have disappeared from her life. We have been her carer and a big part of her life while mum, a single parent works long hours as a nurse. Her aunt is having to step in, but she has to pass our house on the way home from nursery and cannot understand why she can't see us. At first I thought I would be able to see her in the garden and not have contact, but as DH is in the very high risk group I cannot risk it. I cannot think more than a day ahead as it is too heartbreaking. If I know she is alright it makes things more bearable in this powerless situation.

I am in a very difficult situation.
I am 82 so am considered vulnerable.
Since my H died 11 months ago, first my S ,then my GD came to live with me, it suits us all until now.
They both work and my GD uses public transport.
My S works with the general public.
I really feel I will contract the virus from them.
My house is not small and we can be apart, we wear gloves and wipe down incessantly, what more can we do.
Them moving out isn’t practical or financially viable.

I am angry because I have been isolated for two weeks and never seen the family. My neighbour has been on holiday using trains and goes out every day on public transport.
She has a teenager stay with her from Friday to Sunday night and this week she has had primary school age GS with her every day. The child's mother drops him off so she can go to the gym or have an afternoon rest.
This neighbour mid seventies wanders across to chat to DH who is too polite to step away and of course he won't tell people he has cancer.
I do all the right things but others still put you at risk.
I think I am driving DH crackers by asking him if he has washed his hands about twenty times a day.

If your father was in a care home like mine is, the choice is taken away and you would not be able to see him anyway. I hate these thoughts of last seeing, hugging and telling them you love them, but what can we do? They protected us throughout our childhoods and early adult hood so we should try to protect them during these dreadful times. Hopefully it won't last too long. You are not alone with your fears .

If anyone wishes to hear what an American expert in these viruses has to say then look on youtube for Michael Osterholm, especially on a podcast by Joe Rogan, who has him on as a guest. He's concerned what will happen when the Chinese all come out of lockdown and also when the virus mutates.

I was watching a documentary on the Spanish Flu epidemic. It became much more deadly once it mutated as the virus alters itself to keep itself going. We will survive this but things are going to change and there's no doubt that these Chinese wet markets will be no more. The Chinese government will be under pressure from the rest of the world to change the way they farm all these wild animals and the horrendous conditions they keep them in.

Dear LinAnn52, This realisation of the full impact of this situation is going to hit us at times and pull us down. I am so sorry. There is no replacement for seeing your grandchildren, but do try to be as positive as you can. I am sure you are. You have spoken for many of us I think. Maybe somehow here we could have an ongoing forum during this time, for comfort, companionship, help and generally to help us through. I went into a massive dip in the early hours of the morning but fortunately I've come out of it.
I do hope you will begin to feel a bit more able to fight on through this soon. The sacrifices we are making are for the greater good and that can never be underestimated. Try to find ways to keep your spirits up!

Sending lots of love, to LinAnn52 and all who are having a tough time. We'll all help each other get through this xx

My friend told me this morning that her weekly neighbour's coffee morning is still going ahead as usual.
She would not be going as her 88 year old H is very vulnerable but the others don't think it is wrong.
None are less than 70, selfish doesn't even start to say just how wrong this is.

Yes, thats the dilemma, you take all the precautions and are careful and then you see the next door neighbour or friend, who are very cavalier about the whole thing and think you are being the stupid one!!

Mrsdorf, I am in a similar situation, my mum is almost 100, living alone but doesn’t go out & relies on me for shopping & chats, etc. It is a dilemma but we do take precautions, hand washing, wiping down surfaces, keeping our distance, but if I didn’t go & see her & just left her shopping on the doorstep I really think she’d get quite down. It’s a difficult decision.

tickingbird. Thanks I'll watch that. I'll look up the man I follow if I can too. Also there are University lectures "Virology 2020" on youtube.

Concerning if/when the virus mutates:

There is misunderstanding here. Viruses mutate all the time, as they pass from organ to organ to keep going the virus mutates to its new host. There is no sudden big change or momentous mutation where it appears with new horrible ways to attack us. Actually a virus needs its host to stay alive so that the host can pass the virus to another host etc. Once a virus does not have anyone new to go to it will not be able to survive. It can only be active once it is inside an appropriate host and each time it mores from one host to the next it mutates a bit to accommodate that host.

It is possible that a virus might mutate to change the way it affects us. It would be so that it could keep spreading, because a virus that is not in a host will die. It might mutate to make us more ill but it would not survive long if the person died. It has to get into other hosts, like a parasite, to live, it multiplies and mutates inside each host and gets passed on to new hosts.

dancingfeet I read a review of a book explaining the CV to young children - www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/03/09/picture-book-about-coronavirus-released-as-parents-report-childrens-worry/
I haven't seen or read it - maybe someone here can comment whether it's useful?

Annemac1 our pharmacy is doing same thing, I'm told patients queue outside keeping their distance from each other.

To all those who are breaking hearts wondering if shall ever get to cuddle grandchildren again, I'm in same boat and it's awful, you have my sympathy.

Stay as well as you can everyone. Skype is a good way of keeping in touch with your loved ones, that or onscreen chats on Messenger and, I think, WhatsApp, I'm going to use them so my little GC don't forget what I look like, they're used to spending 2 days a week with us plus other visits so they possibly miss us too. I know my little grandson was delighted to see me on his mum's phone yesterday. It's not the same but it's better than nothing. I'm sure many tears of loneliness will be shed but at least we are able to keep in touch much more easily than our parents could during WW2. Stay strong. X

Tillybelle Yes I realise about the mutation but after it crosses from an animal to a human it then mutates so as to become easier for it to pass from human to human. It's already happened obviously and this podcast is about 10 days old and before it really kicked off over here and in America. He talks a lot of sense and I believe him.

Marydoll
I'm with you.
I suspect we have similar backgrounds, similar scientific knowledge.
I find it hard to deal with opinionated people who think the British Govt knows what it is doing or believes it is doing the right thing. I can't bear it if someone is patronising or suggests I'm worrying too much if I speak of any facts. I have always approached life by learning as much as I can and facing the facts, and I still have contacts in the medical world who keep me in touch.

I'm so sorry you have a medical condition. I do hope you'll be able to keep safely isolated for as long as you need to. The truth about the virus and Britain's readiness and approach would probably make people panic and become antisocial. There is hope for us if we self-isolate. For those with difficult situations such as mentioned here, I feel confident the people will find a way to manage both their elderly mum/dad and their own needs. I know it's extremely demanding. But we are very adaptable people.
Wishing you all the very best of good luck and enjoy your sewing!!

dancingfeet. That's not easy, for you or little one. I hope she will adapt with that remarkable ability young children have. I can only say that the truth told in a friendly and not frightening way is my policy. Something like there is this nasty thing called a virus that Granny and Grandad must not catch because they are old. The virus doesn't hurt young people or mummies and aunties but granny and grandad and all the other g and gs have to stay in their houses and not see anyone until the virus goes away. Maybe we can wave to them. They love you very much and are missing you.

It may have to be told a few times. Good luck. Lots of love, Elle x