The unvaccinated

Normally I wouldn’t approve of the population being forced to do something as personal as getting a vaccination but I think I’ve changed my mind on this. It’s obvious that Covid isn’t going away anytime soon, and the large numbers of people who refuse to be vaccinated is feeding the rising numbers here in the UK and probably elsewhere too. The more people who are vaccinated, the fewer cases of Covid, although there’ll always be some as things stand at the moment. Therefore it should be illegal to enter any public building without a vaccine passport in my opinion. Obviously those unable to have the vaccine would need an exemption passport, issued by a doctor. Children would be exempt as currently they are unable to have the vaccine. France are doing the right thing for their society. We should do the right thing for ours.

My DiL had the Moderna vaccine and a couple of weeks later she developed Cranial Palsy which meant one eye stopped moving and her eyelid drooped. This is very unusual in a young person and they are wondering if the vaccine was the cause.
There is no way of telling, of course, but she is reluctant to have the second jab.

I read an article about people getting Bell's Palsy after their jab - I can't remember which vaccine it was, though.
I'm sure it will be on the Internet

itsawelshthing, but aren't you concerned for the people you care for.
with any vaccination, there will be 5-10% of people in whom it does not work, doesn't protect them.
then add in all the people who are immuno-suppressed, many of whom are among those needing care.
so you are going to a vulnerable group, and possibly shortening their lives or making them very ill.
no one knows who how when a person gets infected.
why take the risk. how can you do that to them. you have choice, they don't. they are sitting ducks.
you can choose to work at something else.
they cannot choose not to need care.
please consider your position, not just at the end of the year, but now.

No I'm not concerned because I don't understand how vaccination will stop the spread if you can still catch and spread covid from and to other people, so surely vaccinated individuals should be concerned about it as well? It honestly makes no sense at all. As I said before, maybe in future I will get the vaccine depending on how the trial goes. That's fine if they refuse me entry to any events or pubs, I will cope just like thousand of other people who are not getting vaccinated as well. I know I am coming across selfish but the government are as well for coercing people, especially YOUNG people, to get this.

Itsawelshthing I had the vacinne because it has proved that I am far less likely to get seriously ill need hospital or the ultimate death The NHS needs people not to require their intervention
I do not have a Scooby how my body would react to the virus without vacination
I have seen a few catch it after vacination they had a mild sniffle or no symptoms at all

I also live near a city where many think they no better in some areas vacination take up is abysmal and guess what the fourth highest infection rate in the country
Now is there a correlation in these facts I suppose they will all catch it and then rates might go down

Sorry know better

I help to run a small library and information centre here in France. We have had to set up a system for scanning vaccination certificates and have QR codes for track and trace purposes. It's a hassle as we are all volunteers but without it we are not allowed to stay open.

I know how my body reacted to Covid because I caught Covid last December/January. I’ve said it before on Gransnet so many apologies to those who already know, but obviously some posters obviously don’t know. I became extremely ill Itsawelshthing and was hospitalised for twelve days, was on oxygen for all that time except one day, had eight different drugs put into my body, by drip, by injection, and by mouth. When I went home I was extremely weakened and couldn’t even walk up the stairs without stopping two or three times to get my breath back. It took over six weeks after that to get back to something approaching normal, but the chest pains continued after that, and I still get them occasionally now. My muscles are weakened and although I can walk fine, I can’t walk as far as I did before. I also get more tired than I did before. That’s how Covid affected me Itsawelshthing. I had Covid pneumonia, that’s what made me so ill. I think I’m lucky to be here and I think people who won’t get the vaccine are completely selfish. Some people can’t have the vaccine, and we who can have it, should do so to protect them from what I went through.

Incidentally, whilst we know that if you’re double jabbed you can still catch Covid, there are many fewer people getting Covid who are double jabbed and this slows down the transmission (I’ve just heard an expert say this very thing on Jeremy Vine.) We also know that transmission is reduced if you’re vaccinated, I’ve heard the number is 60%, so the vaccine reduces transmission by 60%. We should get the vaccine and not be selfish.

I’ve followed your Covid story Maddyone and have found it moving and impactful (is that a word?) in equal measure. You seem to speak from the heart yet you’re also very measured in what you say. No dramas, just the plain truth of your experience. I had no qualms about the vaccine anyway, but if I had, I think you’d have swayed me in that direction.

We vaccinated may still get/transmit the virus but the reduction in harm and possibility of death from Covid is a prize worth having. A friend of mine is in a wheelchair with Long Covid, sixteen months after having the illness. At the moment there’s little hope she’ll ever recover her health or strength and she’s only fifty, with young children.

itsawelshthing, no one is coercing you into having the vaccine.
but you should not endanger vulnerable people by going to them as a careworker.
i don't understand how you can do that in good conscience.
you must be quite young if you have had the hpv vaccine; maybe you cannot imagine what it fees like to be old or weak or disabled, ie having very little choice over the details of one's life, or activities.
and feeling vulnerable. why add to that.

According to The Telegraph a prominent English University is refusing to take students who aren’t vaccinated.

itsawelshthing - I have to say, I think you are wrong and sound extremely selfish.
No amount of sanitising, mask wearing, etc will really prevent you getting this virus. As you are so concerned about it, can we assume that you would be equally unwilling to go into hospital if you were in the state of needing treatment for this?

So, it is okay for more than three quarters of the population to have this jab, but you are 'special' and do not want it.

25Avalon

According to The Telegraph a prominent English University is refusing to take students who aren’t vaccinated.

Good.

my uni son is double vaccinated and he has had covid so can he go to a prestigious one?

If refuseniks persist in refusing "because it's their right", I support 100% the rights of venues that require vaccination passports, or genuine medical exemption passports for entry.

have all the vulnerable clients given their informed consent to be cared for by workers who have refused the vaccine.

Completely agree Ailidh. Sometimes we need to put the good of society above our personal preferences.

welbeck

have all the vulnerable clients given their informed consent to be cared for by workers who have refused the vaccine.

to be honest welbeck, at the moment there is little choice. My daughter's needs are pretty complex by any stretch of the imagination and she is tiring as she is very active but carer/support workers generally like working with her but recruiting and retainment at the moment is the worst I think it has ever been

Itsawelshthing

No I'm not concerned because I don't understand how vaccination will stop the spread if you can still catch and spread covid from and to other people, so surely vaccinated individuals should be concerned about it as well? It honestly makes no sense at all. As I said before, maybe in future I will get the vaccine depending on how the trial goes. That's fine if they refuse me entry to any events or pubs, I will cope just like thousand of other people who are not getting vaccinated as well. I know I am coming across selfish but the government are as well for coercing people, especially YOUNG people, to get this.

What trial? This is for real.
The current wave of infections is principally among young people like yourself and also children, even babies.
If you don’t understand how the vaccine reduces the spread of infection you can’t have been reading the right information. Are you also unclear about how it can reduce the severity of the illness?
You say maybe in future you will get the vaccine - well you may well find that the virus overtakes you and it is out of your hands.
I honestly despair at the selfish attitude of some younger people - you are not immune - just because the emphasis early in the pandemic was on the elderly and those with underlying health issues- asthma, diabetes, COPD, obesity or auto immune diseases, it does not preclude young adults succumbing too.

FarNorth

Vaccinated people can carry the infection, even if they are not ill.
So I wonder if the danger is similar from either vaccinated or not.
Does anyone here know?

Unvaccinated people are the ones who are more likely to have a serious illness so perhaps if that happens to large numbers of people, some may have a re-think.

That is an interesting point FarNorth

If vaccinated people can still give the infection to others, should we insist on those who are reluctant to have the vaccine for any reason be forced or shamed into being vaccinated?

After all, they would be putting themselves at more risk but vaccinated people should be more protected anyway.

Ailidh

If refuseniks persist in refusing "because it's their right", I support 100% the rights of venues that require vaccination passports, or genuine medical exemption passports for entry.

Yes, it seems sensible.

According to the latest reports people who are vaccinated and catch Covid carry the same viral load as the unvaccinated, although it’s obviously much less likely to make them seriously unwell, in fact they may well not know they are a carrier.

If I were unvaccinated I’d think very hard about attending a large event at the moment as there’s a high chance of contracting Covid - in fact I’d think hard anyway because even for the vaccinated there’s a risk, and I’d rather not contract it at all if possible.

According to the latest reports people who are vaccinated and catch Covid carry the same viral load as the unvaccinated, although it’s obviously much less likely to make them seriously unwell, in fact they may well not know they are a carrier.

So those who are unvaccinated are taking a greater risk that they themselves could become very I'll but are not in fact putting others in more danger than those who have been vaccinated.

I would like to know what viral load those who have had Covid would carry if they come into contact with Covid again;
they may not develop symptoms but would they cause risk to others?

There is so much we still have to learn.