The unvaccinated

ill
(Autocorrect, sorry)

Callistemon If I’ve understood what I’ve read correctly, there’s less chance that you will become infected if you’re vaccinated, but if you do become infected your viral load is the same - so you would pose the same risk to the unvaccinated?

If that is correct, then they are the ones taking more of a chance and putting themselves at risk.

i've just been reading about an intensive care doctor, who is so frustrated by the vaccine refuseniks.
he said in his unit, and it's the same in others, 90% of the people on ventilators are vaccine refuseniks.
he's checked their notes, they were all offered the vaccine but refused to have it.
he said he is annoyed by the people who spread the false ideas rather than with the poor patients who are suffering.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9913203/ICU-doctor-reveals-90-cent-Covid-patients-ward-vaccine-refuseniks.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9911401/Chris-Whitty-warns-sick-young-patients-hospital-Covid.html

Visgir1

I clearly remember a patient a chap in his 20's who got Polio, which apparently he picked up from his recently vaccinated baby
His mother didn't believe in vacation!
No one at the time could believe it.

That's an interesting one - I remember when my first daughter went for her Polio vaccine, I was given it too as the health visitor warned me there was a slight chance of catching it from her as the vaccine is a live one and a trace could end up in her nappy!

I see the arch-Covid denier, the guy from the band Right Said Fred, has been in hospital for several days with Covid. He's been very vocal about Covid not existing/being anti-vax. He dismisses his illness as 'a slight infection'. Sure - a 'mild' one that needs days in hospital on oxygen?

My son attended school in the UK I remember having to prove that he had had all his childhood vaccinations before he was allowed to attend one of the top universities in the UK also the same proof was asked for when he did his masters in Boston USA. I travelled the world for work purposes and had to have certain vaccinations when entering certain countries. I believe strongly that if you do not want to be vaccinated then the rest of us have the right to refuse you entry into school, universities, countries, restaurants, cinemas etc. Your choice puts me at risk why is your choice more important than my health/life?

Lucca

Pittcity

I also think that people who have "a slight cold" shouldn't just carry on regardless. I know this is easier said than done if you need to work. There must be a way for us to live with these viruses and infections.

Impossible! As a teacher (just for example) if I’d stayed off work for a cold I’d have been in serious bother !

I kind of agree with Pittcity....not with colds as in most circs they don't kill but I used to work in the NHS in elderly care and we had it as part of our conditions of work that no one with any d and v symptoms could be in work and they had to stay home until 48 hours after the last episode. It was not allowed to use loperamide as this just masks symptoms and didn't cure it. I was a manager there and used to send staff home who came to work with symptoms that I thought would spread around staff or would put our patients at risk. Lucca i think it needs a change in attitude by employers because yes many do expect staff to be in work regardless (not just schools) which is how stuff spreads and how the "must go to work regardless" attitude is fostered.

Human rights seems to be the main excuse, but has anyone ever considered the human rights of those who have been vaccinated. Or the innocent who always get overlooked?

The thing that's worrying me at the moment is something that was said on the news .refugees are begin offered covid vaccine surely they must be vaccinated against covid,polio and all the other diseases that we are protected against there should not be an option

I don't understand the point. Vaccinated people can get and transmit Covid, so what is the difference... also how do we explain that Israel where almost all adults were vaccinated is now in serious wave 4 which is at the level of their worst ever peak? and more people hospitalized are vaccinated (in %, not absolute numbers). I think we need to admin that vaccines do not work against Delta variant.

As far as I understand it, the argument seems to be that if you're vaccinated you have far less chance of catching the vrius (and therefore far less chance of passing it on to someone-else) as well as a vastly reduced chance of becoming very ill yourself (and thereby needing to be hospitalised etc). Also, the more severely ill you are, the more likely it is that you'll be left with long term damage to your organs, such as lungs or heart. Yes, it's freedom of choice if you choose not to get the vaccine (as opposed to not being able to) but then it's freedom of choice for businesses to refuse you entry, countries to say you can't visit, and friends/family to refuse to see you/ be around you. It can't be one-sided. It's a choice and we accept the consequences of it, whatever we choose. We can't demand our own right to choose but deny others the same.

Paperbackwriter

I see the arch-Covid denier, the guy from the band Right Said Fred, has been in hospital for several days with Covid. He's been very vocal about Covid not existing/being anti-vax. He dismisses his illness as 'a slight infection'. Sure - a 'mild' one that needs days in hospital on oxygen?

Yes, he seems to be one of those people who would rather die (literally) than say those three little words: I WAS WRONG.

I'm double vaccinated along with a lot of my friends, but yet I still have a few who are totally against it. They are the ones who go on social media, shouting about not trusting the vaccine, the government, etc. My other friends who got their jabs don't even comment, there is no point arguing with them, they get so angry saying they don't like being told what to do, some go into full rants. We now have the worst infection rate in the UK, 1 in 55, and they are now cancelling cancer operations again cos Covid patients are taking up the ICU beds. Can they not see this is not right.

Newatthis. You do not take a vaccine to protect other people. You have a vaccine to protect yourself against a specific disease. If you have the yellow fever vaccine to travel to a country where the disease is rife, you are not having it to protect the local population but to protect yourself. Statistics obtained from the ONS under the FOI act show that on average, flu kills as many people each year as covid did in 2020, the difference being that the daily deaths from flu were never publicised like the constant barrage of fearmongering that people all over the world have been subjected to regarding covid. As I am sure you know, everyone taking this jab is currently part of experimental phase 3 trials, which are due to end in early 2023. According to official U.K. yellow card data, there have now been over 1500 deaths and nearly a million adverse effects from the vaccines. Furthermore, no one knows what the mid to long term effects will be so surely we should be questioning the government’s enthusiasm for the mass vaccination of our children and young people when their risk of catching or dying from covid is virtually non existent.

I'm vaccinated, but I'll be damned if I ever show a vaccine passport to get in anywhere. These vaccines do have some nasty side-effects in some people, so everyone should have the right to decide if they take it or not. Being vaccinated, we can still get ill and be contagious but have a better chance of surviving than the unvaccinated. So the from the unvaccinated are no threat to me or mine.

I also don't like this rising authoritarianism that people are so keen on.

GilT57, I hope I won’t be her ITU clinician when she’s fighting for her life and has more than likely passed it on to others. FFS everyone, take the vaccine!!

Only this morning read that the Euro football in London produced overseas 3,000 Covid cases and that was with all spectator's having a test before the match. Just think how many they infected. Those who for health reasons cannot be vaccinated will be exempt and of course they will run the risk of being severely ill if catching the virus. Surely they will not be mixing with the general public, at least if they have any sense they won't. Otherwise, just to protect individuals, conserve health resources and people's livelihoods people should be vaccinated

How on earth do you think people with health concerns will not be mixing. I work with someone who cant be vaccinated because of health issues, she must be in contact with 30 people per day for work alone. I am really worried about the increased authoritarism as well. Which employees do you think firms will pick of they have a choice between vaccinated and those who cant be.

Saw this on another site.

My partner’s youngest son, aged 30, refuses to be vaccinated as he “ doesn’t t believe in it”He doesn’t recognise that he has never had polio, smallpox, etc as he was vaccinated!!
He was supposed to isolate recently when he was pinged! But no! He went to a large football match and drinking in Manchester. Consequently, I refuse to meet up with him anywhere but in open spaces . I have no idea who he and girlfriend have been in close proximity with?‍♀️
Other two sons and wives have had jabs as has my daughter.
As a 71 year old and 67 year old, I think we have the right to say where we meet.

Coyoacan 'we can still get ill and be contagious but have a better chance of surviving' does not equal 'no threat'.

I must confess to feeling very confused about it all now. I am not anti vax and was pleased to get both of my jabs, only to find that it doesn't prevent catching it again (I had covid pretty badly in December, with recurring problems since). Reading the examples on here, hopefully rare, that double jabbed people are catching covid and it being worse than when they had covid the first time round. Which makes me now wonder why I bothered.
Also in response to whether employers should rethink their sickness policies, that would be interesting. In the workplace I was at prior to retirement, it was expected you would drag yourself in, no matter how ill you were, and no matter how many other people caught what you had. If you had a cumulation of sickness, you were disciplined for absence from work, even if the total was very low. This was the civil service, a government department. I wonder now whether they will have a rethink, given that covid reinfection can present as just sniffles?
As to the availability of lateral flow tests, I was in our local pharmacy yesterday collecting meds for my husband and heard a conversation between a customer and the staff member at the counter. The elderly customer asked for some lateral flow test kits. He was told they only had 2 left and was asked what he wanted them for. His reply was so that he could test before visiting his wife in a care home, and the staff member then handed them to him. I wonder what circumstances would lead to a refusal, and what happens for the next customer who needs any, but none are available and can't do the rounds of other pharmacies to get the kits?