Prince Andrew Can't Sweat

trisher

Germanshepherdsmum

Caleo, poor people are always given free legal representation by the state in criminal cases. A poor person is very unlikely to face a civil action such as this.

In the GM case the women were called as defence witnesses. GM is rich enough to pay for her defence. They didn’t have to find any money.

I don't know where this misinformation came from
In the US a number of legal firms and organisations offer legal representation in criminal cases. It is not state funded. It is known as "pro-bono work"It is often undertaken by young lawyers as part of their career path
In the UK only under 16s, under 18s in full time education and those receiving certain benefits are entitled to legal aid.
Anyone who thinks the legal system isn't different for the rich is just mistaken.

I don't think any woman should be ashamed to tell her children she was abused and trafficked as a child and she is seeking justice for this abuse. In fact she should be proud to set her children such an example.

Thanks trisher - you posted exactly what I intended.

Sparkle fizz, VG has been open about the fact she introduced others into child sexual exploitation. She did to others what Maxwell did to her.

One of the girls in the Rochdale abuse ring wasn’t called as a witness because she had introduced other girls into child sexual exploitation. The drama 3 Girls demonstrated how this kind of thing happens.

Maggie Oliver, the detective who left GMP because of its delays, avoidance, blaming the girls approach over many years has also explained how children are corrupted by adults, with long term devastating effects.

chris8888

I think he will pay her off, and we won`t see him for a few years.

Will he pay her off or the Queen? Victoria says she won't accept a pay-off as it sends the wrong message to women. That didn't stop her accepting Epstein's hush money. We shall see. What a sordid, grubby world this lot lived in.

Was Maxwell abused , perhaps this explains much

VG has been open about the fact she introduced others into child sexual exploitation. She did to others what Maxwell did to her.

Yes, I understand where this comes from. On the other hand Maxwell was emotionally and verbally abused by her father but also spoilt, which is a confusing mix to grow up with, and could say that when he died suddenly, she turned to another abusive older man in Epstein.

Just speculating but if that's VG's take on what she herself did, the same could apply to Maxwell.

Yes Sparklefizz Robert Maxwell died in 1991. In Maxwell’s trial the period 1994 - 1997 was included, Maxwell was said to be in an intimate relationship with Epstein.

Well of course she could have been abused the point is that she denies everything. Had she admitted what she did and used the abuse as an extenuating circumstance, shopped all the men she knew were involved (including Andrew) and blown the whole thing wide open she would then have been worthy of all the sympathy and concern. She hasn't done that. She's chosen instead to deny everything.So sad as any abuse may be it can't be taken into account in this case.

I am sure she felt safe in prison and could have talked

I don't know Annie. If she had given out names of powerful people I wouldn't rate her chances. I'm not defending her but I think she knows that powerful people have a long reach.

From what little I’ve read, Maxwell had what could be described as an emotionally abusive childhood. Her mother it’s said largely ignored her until at age 3 it’s reported VM said something to her mother like - I am here mummy. An older brother was killed in an accident just before VM was born, mum plunged into bereavement, emotionally unavailable. RM was a bully, it’s reported he was verbally and physically violent to the children.

Of course many people experience similarly less than perfect developmental years but don’t go on to get involved in trafficking minors

Iam not the full account of her childhood, she went from being ignored to being her father’s favourite child, worked and
travelled with him , was devastated by his death, so not just her developing years but in adulthood.

GSM I am not defending Maxwell or Andrew, but I truly believe Giuffrie is not telling the truth .

I believe she went to bed with Andrew but not how she was so
frightened etc. And it seems she procured girls .

Much she has said does not ring true

I agree Annie. Saying ‘I got to sleep with PA’ doesn’t sound like she was forced into it does it?

Anniebach

Andrew should have done ‘a Corbyn’ when he was photographed attended a wreath laying ceremony for terrorists
who murdered an Olympic Team,

‘I was there but I don’t think I was involved’

Haha?
Yes, it worked for him didn’t it?

GSM she telephoned a friend and was excited, showed the photograph to her when back in America.

So who has lied ? the girl who gave evidence against Maxwell or
*Giuffrie who spoke of how frightened she was and suffered much after.

There will never be agreement on this , it’s wealth v poverty

I know, I’m wasting my time here but -young victims of sexual exploitation can and do take time to realise they’re being abused and exploited. An ‘excited’ 17year old from the background these girls experienced may be a depressed and self loathing woman 10 years (or whenever) later

Who is happy to recruit others and tell them to lie about their age?
I think all that took time is the realisation she could make a lot of money.

GSM. We’re you ever involved with sex trafficking or under age sex cases?

If so I pity the young women who were trying to prove their case. Difficult at the best of times but with those involved in the legal process being so biased and myopic they stood no chance.

Iam I am so thankful we are moving on from ‘she was asking for it’ , she’s got herself pregnant, ‘he had to marry her, so many more I could write.

But I cannot accept that now we are in a place where every girl is a victim. Every girl speaks the truth, every girl is a victim.

Thankfully not my sort of work wwm.

Anniebach

Iam I am so thankful we are moving on from ‘she was asking for it’ , she’s got herself pregnant, ‘he had to marry her, so many more I could write.

But I cannot accept that now we are in a place where every girl is a victim. Every girl speaks the truth, every girl is a victim.

Your last paragraph is at the very heart of a growing problem. The policy of every accusation being believed -“if you come to us we will believe us” - is ruining the lives of innocent men and their families. No one wants genuine victims to suffer but surely no one should want innocent men to suffer either? Until anonymity in proven guilty is brought in for all cases some lives will continue to be destroyed so that the police can give the semblance of having moved away from the disinterested stance they previously took.

If the man in question happened to be a Z-list actor without private means, I ask myself would VG be going after him?

Believe you not us.

It is claimed many men were involved, went to Epstein’s island,
why not an American being sued by Giuffrie ? ex presidents have been named .

Maximum publicity and very deep pockets come to mind. Americans love anything to do with the RF don’t they? The biggest prize.

Yes GSM when she wins, a seat in .Oprah’s garden.

It has been said it’s the right thing to do for her children, yes tell her children but with all the publicity what could they be
coping with at school.

Why not an out of court settlement, this will prove he slept with her, why full alleged details in court.