JK Rowling putting her money where her mouth is

Mollygo

Finally was exactly what I meant. If I’ve missed all G’s posts supporting females without mentioning the needs of TIM, then please send references.
And from you to VS.
It would be good to hear you say females deserve spaces free from males without accusing others of being anti-trans, transphobic etc. etc. because they support females.
ALSO without mentioning that males, TIM or not also need support, which no one on here has denied.

MollygoI have posted many times that I support the legislation which says transwomen can be excluded from a service or facility if natal women would not use it.
For some reason you seem incapable of assimilating or understanding this. So I've stopped saying it. I'll post it this last time, but don't expect to say it again, Some people just don't want to hear.

OnwardandUpward It was the online and MSM abuse of JKRowling that first opened my eyes to what was actually happening all around me.
But it was the Feminism forum on Mumsnet that really made me realise just how deep Queer Theory and trans ideology had taken a hold in so many of our institutions. QT has been getting “taught” in universities for 20+/- years, so has had time to influence a lot of people on how they think.

As Simon Edge says in the film, it was 2013/14 that Stonewall changed from being an organisation that supported gay and lesbian rights to one which not only included the “T” but actively put their issues ahead of the LGB. Why? Cynics (realists imo) will say it’s because Stonewall needed a reason to stay pertinent. Gay rights had basically been won and done, so they needed a new means of staying financially viable.

Re. the film itself - I agree that at 90 minutes, some people won’t bother to watch it. I actually found it a bit simplistic, but that’s only because I’ve already heard or read about everything that is in the film. And, tbh, for me it made it easy to watch and listen to it. I’ve admitted before, I for one struggle with some of the writings of the hard core, far left feminists.
I was disappointed that Kathleen Stock doesn’t appear in the film, I’ve heard her talk (online) and she’s wonderful. Highly intelligent, very articulate, but often with an underlying sense of humour which given her experience of the last few years amazes me.
I was a wee bit surprised but pleased that Aja appeared in it, as she is always seen at Standing for Women events organised by Kellie-Jay Keen, who is not at all liked by many of the hard left feminists, e.g. Jane Clare Jones. Recently, there’s been a lot of dissension online and in MSM between KJK supporters and the hard left feminists who really do not approve of the company she appears to apparently associate with which is a great pity as surely unity is much needed right now amongst all “adult human females”.

Glorianny I agree you have said this many times. You also usually follow up with the smug question of "how are you going to police it?" going on to say "are you going to have genital inspections?" So you support legislation which you think unenforceable, and that belief seems to make you happy.

Of course the legislation says transwomen can be excluded, but then Stonewall and the like say they can't, and too many organisations are such cowards, terrified of being labelled anti-trans they won't even consider doing it. Until it's made very clear that it is lawful and appropriate to have single sex spaces in the few areas they're needed there won't be any. Well done to JKR that she is willing to provide one such space from her own pocket.

One of the first thoughts I had after hearing about JKR doing this was one of security and how that is going to be managed. If trans activists can stop a film from being shown, then there’s almost certain going to be protests outside the centre. And if men, who behave as Robyn Woof does, are still around, how violent might those protests be?

I suspect thousands of women might appear to protect the centre and JKR. I'd turn out and I bet others would if word got out that it was needed.

Nobody is shouting at you, VS . Absolutely nobody.

Glorianny
So how do assertions that transwomen are men help rape victims Doodledog? You are entirely welcome to your opinions but a woman who would have accessed rape counselling could be deterred from doing so by your accusations. Perhaps she would have been helped but will continue to suffer. Is that better?
I have no idea what you are on about here. Who am I accusing of what?

As I said "reframing trauma" is an accepted concept of feminist counselling which aims to give women the tools to rebuild their confidence and help them move away from victimhood. It is always undertaken with the full consent of the subject. Why would you deny anyone that?
I wouldn't deny anyone anything. Including the right to a female counsellor if that is what they ask for.

I will leave others to decide on whether people would be given 'full consent' by posting the full quote from Mridul Wadhwa here:
Sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. It is not a discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you.

But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma.

But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices.

If you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing, having a more positive relationship with it, where it becomes a story that empowers you and allows you to go and do other more beautiful things with your life, you also have to reframe your relationship with prejudice.

Otherwise, you can’t really, in my view, recover from trauma and I think that’s a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues at Edinburgh Rape Crisis.

Because you know, to me, therapy is political, and it isn’t always seen as that.
(source - the Herald) www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19509343.outcry-plan-educate-bigoted-rape-survivors-trans-rights/

Does an insistence on 're-educating' rape victims about trans rights at a time when they are vulnerable and traumatised sound very consensual to you - in the ethical sense of the word (ie as used in counselling)?

FarNorth

Even Mumsnet?
Mumsnet has supported women's right to talk about this for a long time.

It tucks the posts away in 'Feminism- sex & gender' so those who think it's all boring and there's no problem can just ignore it all.

I don't use Mumsnet and had somehow imagined that younger women may be more broad minded than us, but actually it's a relief to know we all feel the same.

Thanks, I didn't know that.

Glorianny
I have posted many times that I support the legislation which says transwomen can be excluded from a service or facility if natal women would not use it.

Once again Glorianny, you make it dependent on females having to take further steps, instead of saying males should not use female facilities.

I have read your endless posts supporting male right to appropriate female rights unless females take steps to oppose them and expecting females to defend their rights as you do here.

You can repeat your mantra as often as you like. It won’t change the meaning, that you accept males have the right to misappropriate female spaces, jobs, medals, rights etc.
You endorse males’ right to lie about what they actually are, even if it harms, or causes discomfort to females.
I don’t believe you’ll change where your support lies.
Let’s just celebrate the fact that you agree/accept that JKR has done something positive to show her support for females.

Yes, whatever any of us think or feel, if we are biological women then JK Rowling has done something positive for us.

I do have sympathy for Transwomen, it must be very hard for them suffering body dymorphia and other traumas, especially as they long to be us, yet they will never be able to change their chromosomes which identify their birth gender.

blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

Is that a real article. Its hilarious. Like a three year old having a tantrum.
There is no science that says you can change sex.

Belief that you cant change sex is protected under the law.

OnwardandUpward
I do have sympathy for Transwomen, it must be very hard for them suffering body dysmorphia and other traumas, especially as they long to be us, yet they will never be able to change their chromosomes which identify their birth gender

Many of us feel the same sympathy especially for those TW who have no desire to usurp female rights, but just want to live in peace in their chosen role.
However more of those transpeople, mainly TW, are suffering, not only because of their body dysmorphia but because of the spotlight that has been shone on them by the actions of some TIM and the violent and bullying tactics of TRA.

The actions of those two groups has raised fear of what TIM might do and fear of what the tactics of TRA might do -whether physical threats or attacks, like those on JKR and natal women’s groups working to protect their rights, or the verbal bullying, meaning people lose their jobs for asserting the truth-that men are not female.

Some groups support for male rights even goes so far as to claim that you can change sex, to support their idea that females aren’t entitled to their separate rights.

The truth is that chromosomes, apart from not actually being just XX and XY as the sex determiners because there are other variations in human sex... they are not the end of the matter.

There are 46 pairs of chromosomes

The chromosomes themselves hold genes, yes even the Xs and Ys

Genes are those things that come in ridiculous amounts of variations, let's simplify and think information like, whether a person has blue or brown eyes... now look at the nearest person to you and how you can recognise them amongst 100s of thousands of other people and that will give you an idea of how varied people actually are, much more varied than a simple XX and XY which as we have just learned, aren't the only possible combinations and aren't the only chromosomes

Now look at the fact that scientists have already identified unusual gene variations in participant transgender people

If you think XX and XY ( and even if you accept other variations of those exist) are the full stop of human sex or gender, you have barely even scratched the surface of understanding and this is without even going into hormones which are also responsible for how our bodies develop

If you think science has already learned everything there is to learn about sex and gender.. you are wrong

And I could go on and on but its pointless really isn't it?

Your opinion>actual science

I'll go do something interesting

Your own words VS or copied and pasted from another dodgy source? Rather amazing that you know so much more than Lord Robert Winston, a professor who has spent a lifetime on biological studies, who pioneered the first "test tube baby" etc etc He states you cannot change sex. I believe him.

It's not actual science. It's a blog from a PhD student.

Mollygo

Glorianny
I have posted many times that I support the legislation which says transwomen can be excluded from a service or facility if natal women would not use it.

Once again Glorianny, you make it dependent on females having to take further steps, instead of saying males should not use female facilities.

I have read your endless posts supporting male right to appropriate female rights unless females take steps to oppose them and expecting females to defend their rights as you do here.

You can repeat your mantra as often as you like. It won’t change the meaning, that you accept males have the right to misappropriate female spaces, jobs, medals, rights etc.
You endorse males’ right to lie about what they actually are, even if it harms, or causes discomfort to females.
I don’t believe you’ll change where your support lies.
Let’s just celebrate the fact that you agree/accept that JKR has done something positive to show her support for females.

No because I know that many women are like me intersectional feminists who believe that transwomen are women and do not object to sharing spaces with them. You are quite entitled to your view but I don't see why your view should always take precedence.
You are entitled to believe whatever you choose about transwomen. You are not entitled to inflict those views on me or any other woman who disagrees with you.
I find it very significant that you are prepared to misquote and misrepresent my views in order to prove your point. It worries me even more because not acknowledging different viewpoints and misrepresenting another persons views are neither feminist nor indeed democratic. Much of what you post is neither discussion nor indeed argument but is propaganda, something no feminist should be involved with or use.

Mollygo

OnwardandUpward
I do have sympathy for Transwomen, it must be very hard for them suffering body dysmorphia and other traumas, especially as they long to be us, yet they will never be able to change their chromosomes which identify their birth gender

Many of us feel the same sympathy especially for those TW who have no desire to usurp female rights, but just want to live in peace in their chosen role.
However more of those transpeople, mainly TW, are suffering, not only because of their body dysmorphia but because of the spotlight that has been shone on them by the actions of some TIM and the violent and bullying tactics of TRA.

The actions of those two groups has raised fear of what TIM might do and fear of what the tactics of TRA might do -whether physical threats or attacks, like those on JKR and natal women’s groups working to protect their rights, or the verbal bullying, meaning people lose their jobs for asserting the truth-that men are not female.

Some groups support for male rights even goes so far as to claim that you can change sex, to support their idea that females aren’t entitled to their separate rights.

It seems the spotlight is always on trans women as opposed to trans men.

I admit to not keeping well up to date on these issues, so maybe there are 'shouty' TM, but they don't appear to be in focus like TW.

Perhaps others know more than I do, though.

GC feminists talk a great deal about transmen, they were one of the concerns raised about the Tavistock. Some of the detransitioners are lesbians and talk about homophobia being a factor in their transition. The unexplained increase in female to Male transition is finally being discussed more widely.

We dont inflict those views on you Glorianny, you can believe whatever you like of course. However when you are talking about single sex spaces we are talking about consent, so the fact that you are happy to share spaces with men is neither here or there, you cant make other women share spaces with men, therefore the spaces have to be single sex. Obviously no one is stopping you using mixed sex facilities.

TM being female have been socialised as females and mostly retain that socialisation. They don't tend to be shouty or pushy, and certainly aren't prominent in protests or attempts to silence women. It's very telling that as soon as the word 'transgender' is mentioned, politicians, celebrities, transactivists etc all start the transwomen are women mantra, transmen never spring first to their minds.

That post was to Dickens

Sure

I think the earth is flat

Now I only need one academic to agree and I'm right

We can safely ignore your blog from an academic then. I guess it works both ways.

Trans men are men