Transgender women and an early state pension.

Galaxy

I was speaking to VS cossy about the wrong body thing.
It is important though, it was used by many of the transgender organisations until women pointed out that it is a really dangerous thing to say to children. You know us bigots who have been pointing out for some time that there were quite extensive problems with regards to the messages given to children on this issue. That puberty blockers were dangerous, that mens criminality is different to womens and therefore single sex provision is important, all the things that are now being shown to be true. That was the bigoted feminists waving the warning flags.

We accept that,

So what is an acceptable terminology so that we don't make that mistake again?

Cossy

25Avalon

Perverts now use trans as an excuse to invade women’s space and perpetrate crimes against them. That is the danger.

Do they? I mean aside from one or two, do they? What exactly do you mean by “women’s space” ?

Cossy there are a number of men in prison who have raped women but try to get a more lenient sentence or better still be put in a women’s prison by claiming to be trans. There was a recent case of a pervert who whilst claiming to be trans entered a ladies toilet and was taking indecent photos.

I hope there is one because not recognizing a legally protected and medically diagnosable reason for something that truly causes real people pain right from childhood would surely be discrimination?

To be honest I am not really into telling how people to speak, if people stop telling me off for saying transwomen are men, then I wont tell others off for their terminology.

Of course Avalon we both know that is not trans women's fault at all and the fault of abusive people as individuals

Galaxy

To be honest I am not really into telling how people to speak, if people stop telling me off for saying transwomen are men, then I wont tell others off for their terminology.

There we have it

Please don't further try to police language just to dismiss someone else's comment in that way

Be better

Galaxy

I was speaking to VS cossy about the wrong body thing.
It is important though, it was used by many of the transgender organisations until women pointed out that it is a really dangerous thing to say to children. You know us bigots who have been pointing out for some time that there were quite extensive problems with regards to the messages given to children on this issue. That puberty blockers were dangerous, that mens criminality is different to womens and therefore single sex provision is important, all the things that are now being shown to be true. That was the bigoted feminists waving the warning flags.

Thanks, I wasn’t aware of that, I just cannot think of any other way to explain it.

Cossy

25Avalon

Perverts now use trans as an excuse to invade women’s space and perpetrate crimes against them. That is the danger.

Do they? I mean aside from one or two, do they? What exactly do you mean by “women’s space” ?

I'm not 25Avalon, but if I may, I'd like to answer some of the questions on this thread.

A woman's space is somewhere that women go when they are vulnerable - perhaps because they are ill, unclothed, traumatised or similar - and do not want to be around men. There are also women of traditional religions who are not allowed to be around men in certain circumstances, and if men are allowed in they can't go.

Before someone can be 'in the wrong body' there has to be a 'right body' that they could have had. If the knowledge that one body is 'right' and another is 'wrong' is based on a preference for what society sees as 'male' or 'female' behaviour, then that reinforces outdated stereotypes. Why is, for example, wearing pink and playing with dolls for girls? Or drinking pints and wearing boiler suits for men? Can't people pick and mix?

Sex and gender are different. It is not possible to change sex, biologically, medically, any which way. Gender is a social construct, so people can choose which gendered behaviour to follow, but unless you (generic) believe that these behaviours are biologically programmed, as people did in the 50s, then deciding to dress in a particular way, or have certain pastimes, or whatever it is, then it is not possible to 'change' gender either. Yes, people can act more like the opposite sex than their own, but they do not become that sex, and choosing certain gendered behaviours doesn't make them change gender, as it is not possible to do so.

There are some men who have a fetish known as Autogynephilia (AGP) which means that they are sexually aroused by being assumed to be female. They are not prepared to be known as trans. They are often straight men, so fancy women. As their fetish involves being believed to be women, they therefore target lesbians and get angry when they are rejected for sex. These people also insist on using female changing rooms, toilets and so on - to use special 'neutral' ones, or men's ones would shatter their fantasy - and as such are forcing nearby women to collude in their fetish without the women's consent.

All this is without mentioning the sports issues, the mangling of the language, the skewing of statistics and other problems that get brushed aside by those who suggest that this is about living and letting live - it really isn't.

To me being trans is like being gay or bisexual (Hi, I'm Bi lol) in that, it's just something you are, maybe there is a cause, maybe something happens during early development but it should never be a cause of any kind of discrimination or hardship. It doesn't need to be prevented or cured. Just leave people alone

Save your anger for the deserving

Doodledog

Passive aggression, VS. The implication (aggression) that those who don't agree with you could only have got their information from a rag such as the DM isn't stated, but implied (passive). As you well know.

As well as assuming Gransnetters get all their information from the Daily Mail, it was this:

vulnerable demographic going on Gransnet which is is insulting, don't you think, Doodledog!

Condescending, patronising.
And deliberate.

And actually correct having been part of these threads for years

Can I stop ducking now so the insults don't cut me on their way over my head? Lol

You are the one posting insults, VS. As far as I can see there have been none coming your way - just pointing out when you are being passive aggressive

Doodledog Very interesting to read about AGP.

I read an article about a man who confused AGP for being trapped in the wrong body.
He confessed this to his wife and children and then after counselling underwent a sex change.
He was very unhappy living life as a woman and eventually had more surgery to return to being male.
It destroyed his marriage and his relationship with his children.
He advised that any person should wait 10 years before going under the knife for gender reassignment.
He had AGP.

That would not stand up in court doodledog lol

I think that people here are perpetuating harmful dialogue that is directly harmful to trans people because it is the truth

I also think, that people here find it threatening to have their points of view challenged with that truth so they lash out on a personal level, it has been going on for years

It truly is amazing what people are willing to justify when they believe themselves right

We're not in court, VS.

If you disagree with anything in my posts, why not take issue with them instead of making vague accusations about nothing in particular?

Sago

Doodledog Very interesting to read about AGP.

I read an article about a man who confused AGP for being trapped in the wrong body.
He confessed this to his wife and children and then after counselling underwent a sex change.
He was very unhappy living life as a woman and eventually had more surgery to return to being male.
It destroyed his marriage and his relationship with his children.
He advised that any person should wait 10 years before going under the knife for gender reassignment.
He had AGP.

Was that Debbie Hayton, Sago?

There are some very sad stories as people who have transitioned realise that it was the wrong decision, and the chances are that there will be many more as time goes on.

When you say be better you mean behave in the way you want me to. No thanks. Why on earth do people think that the views they hold are better in some way. Your idea of being better is not mine. It's about a thousand miles apart.

Given that the vast majority of transwomen keep their penis, can they truly have body dysphoria? Transwomen 'lesbians' want to use that penis to have sex with women which doesn't sound very dysphoric to me.

No that won't be Debbie Hayton Doodledog. Debbie is still with their wife and children, and hated by some transwomen, notably India Willoughby, because Debbie says born a male, die a male you can't change sex.

Doodledog

We're not in court, VS.

If you disagree with anything in my posts, why not take issue with them instead of making vague accusations about nothing in particular?

Oh shhh

I cannot take any poster seriously who intersperses lol in their posts on a serious issue.

Rosie51

No that won't be Debbie Hayton Doodledog. Debbie is still with their wife and children, and hated by some transwomen, notably India Willoughby, because Debbie says born a male, die a male you can't change sex.

Ah sorry. I'm hopeless with names, but I think I know who Sago is referring to.

VioletSky

Doodledog

We're not in court, VS.

If you disagree with anything in my posts, why not take issue with them instead of making vague accusations about nothing in particular?

Oh shhh

Riiight. So that means you aren't able to actually argue a point? Fair enough.

VioletSky

Doodledog

We're not in court, VS.

If you disagree with anything in my posts, why not take issue with them instead of making vague accusations about nothing in particular?

Oh shhh

Haven't you heard, the shutdown 'no debate' got abandoned?