Awful tragedy

David49

I don’t remember a crossbow being used in a murder before although pets have been killed before. Whatever the weapon it’s the intent hat is lethal, most often a knife is the weapon, which could be a craft knife, a table knife or carving knife, or many other everyday objects, we are not going to control availability of weapons.

There have been several instances of murder by crossbow over the years.

That man would have killed those women with or without a crossbow. I have no objection to crossbows needing to be licensed but the issue is violent men.

I would like to see the death penalty bought back for such heinous crimes such as this. Make him suffer like he made those poor people suffer.

It is reported that he is ex-Army and I was awaiting the usual brickbats about the Army causing men to become violent. It teaches discipline, trains for careers, gives structure to some with hitherto chaotic lives.

However, this man struggled to reach basic standards, was a failure and an Army drop-out, so I understand.

At half-time in the England match last night, the commentator (I think it was Mark Pougatch) said that his thoughts were with his colleague John Hunt. He didn't even mentioned the victims names. They were Hannah, Louise and Carol, Mark. Don't define them by their father and husband.

Oh, and the thread title is wrong. It wasn't a tragedy - it was a deliberate act of violence by yet another man who thinks women just exist to meet his needs.

David49

Sago

Why are crossbows even legal?
This is the most dreadful story.

I don’t remember a crossbow being used in a murder before although pets have been killed before. Whatever the weapon it’s the intent hat is lethal, most often a knife is the weapon, which could be a craft knife, a table knife or carving knife, or many other everyday objects, we are not going to control availability of weapons.

How do we predict a violent threat in advance ?.

The thing is though that knives are an every-day tool for all sorts of procedures and activities.

A cross-bow isn't, nor a gun. Both are designed for one purpose, to kill or maim, either an animal or human.

And yes, I know responsible owners use them either for display or to hone their skills down at the shooting-range, but their purpose remains the same.

If people are legally allowed to own one or the other, or both, they will inevitably end up in the wrong-hands or the owner will himself (or herself) use them illegally.

Theoretically, in a sane and civilised society, such weapons legally owned by responsible people would not be a cause for concern, but that is certainly not the kind of society we live in.

Galaxy

That man would have killed those women with or without a crossbow. I have no objection to crossbows needing to be licensed but the issue is violent men.

...but the issue is violent men.

Quite.

But what the hell do we do about it?

I dont know. I mean he should never be released which will save some future women, but I dont know.
I agree with Seabears posts, in some of the reporting the women are almost 'relegated' out of the focus of the story.

Galaxy

I dont know. I mean he should never be released which will save some future women, but I dont know.
I agree with Seabears posts, in some of the reporting the women are almost 'relegated' out of the focus of the story.

I think the shock of something like that happening to the family of a colleague means his thoughts were with his devastated colleague and his colleague's other daughter.
Criticism at this time is not really helpful.

It's not criticism its talking about what frequently happens to female victims in these incidents. What actually usually happens is the focus goes to the perpetrator, and someone will talk about what a nice man he was and no one could have guessed.

Tiley

I would like to see the death penalty bought back for such heinous crimes such as this. Make him suffer like he made those poor people suffer.

No, for a whole number of reasons, but life means life for those heinous crimes.

A man called Shane Gilmer was killed with a crossbow in January 2018, after disputes with a neighbour.

His pregnant partner was also wounded, but she and the baby survived.

I think it went down as ‘unlawful killing’, not ‘murder’

🤷‍♀️

The killer must have intended killing him, surely.

The trouble is life doesn't mean life. Most of these so called lifers are let out after a certain number of years. When it is a clear case of intended murder like this obviously was I stand by saying bring back the death penalty.

I wasn't going to comment as these cases upset me too much.
However, one of my best friends in London, a GP, was murdered by a partner she had just broken up with. He butchered her outside her flat with a meat cleaver, that was 30 years ago. I think he was ex police.
As a doctor, my friend knew he had issues, and he pestered her at her surgery, but she would never have expected such violence. It was rejection that presumably triggered his reaction.
I feel desperately for those 3 women victims, the father, and the remaining sister.
I'm only putting the link to Ann's murder, not necessarily to be read, but to prove how close I've been to people affected in this way, and to show how it haunts forever.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/gp-killed-by-lonely-heart-respondent-doctor-beaten-to-death-by-man-she-met-through-advertisement-1411690.html

Tiley

I would like to see the death penalty bought back for such heinous crimes such as this. Make him suffer like he made those poor people suffer.

It is very strange that some people supposedly condemning violence want to answer it with more violence. Revenge is a very primitive reaction. At least the law has moved beyond that.

I'm in favour of the death sentence, too.

I am against the death penalty, is hanging an innocent person acceptable which certainly happened when we did have the desth penalty

As I understand it he is now fighting for his life in hospital.

I feel sorry for the medical team who have to deal with him. I’d let him die asap.

He is taking medical care away from some decent person in need.

Anniebach

I am against the death penalty, is hanging an innocent person acceptable which certainly happened when we did have the desth penalty

Yes, this is an important consideration.

My baser instincts tell me that I'd like to do to them exactly what they did to others. But I've heard some truly sickening things over the years and know that a civilised society does not stoop to the levels of these violent criminals.

Grandma70s

Tiley

I would like to see the death penalty bought back for such heinous crimes such as this. Make him suffer like he made those poor people suffer.

It is very strange that some people supposedly condemning violence want to answer it with more violence. Revenge is a very primitive reaction. At least the law has moved beyond that.

We shouldn't assume that the victims and family want that.

Another death to live with.

It's also against the ECHR and most of the nations in the UN. The Pope is against it.

Whole life orders are enacted in the UK.

Anniebach

I am against the death penalty, is hanging an innocent person acceptable which certainly happened when we did have the desth penalty

For people who commit intentional murder ie like the person we are talking about that went armed with a weapon then yes he should be killed. I hope and pray nothing like this will ever happen to a loved one of yours because God forbid it ever does I think very much you will change your point of view.

The pope may well be against it, but I'm not.

The last wrongful execution was in the 1950s, I think.

I’m with Annie, Wyllow and Callistemon in opposing the death penalty. We have moved from state sponsored murder. I’m horrified by the way the death penalty is imposed in the USA and by the way spectators are in the room watching the perpetrator die, often prolonged agony. How that’s supposed to help anyone is beyond me.
America is a violent society

Did Ruth Ellis deserve to hang ?