Awful tragedy

www.gransnet.com/forums/chat/1307342-Here-is-a-puzzling-thing?pg=2

Chestnut Thu 11-Jul-24 12:54:50

Anniebach I am against the death penalty, is hanging an innocent person acceptable which certainly happened when we did have the desth penalty
If the death penalty was brought back it should be for unspeakable murders where there is no doubt. After all we have DNA evidence and CCTV as well as witnesses for crimes in public places. Think of Lee Rigby. There should be different categories of murder and hanging is not the method which would be used today.

Was not the murderer of Lee Rigby mentally ill but allowed to
walk the streets?

All murders are unspeakable surely

MissAdventure

www.gransnet.com/forums/chat/1307342-Here-is-a-puzzling-thing?pg=2

This is the discussion I was thinking of.
The one where I was likened to a toddler, always asking why, and told I needed to calm down and stop getting stressed.

Oh yes. I can see a variety of answers as well as where you stand! International War Crimes discussed as well as hoping either someone would discreetly take him out or he'd die of an illness.

They have CCTV and DNA in the USA and still get it wrong sometimes, but glad to say death penalty is shrinking

deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/dpic-reports/dpic-year-end-reports/the-death-penalty-in-2023-year-end-report

I agree 'life' should mean LIFE. But this is nothing new. The great, great aunt of a farmer friend of mine was shot and killed outside their farmhouse by a rejected suitor and that was 100 years ago!

There is no such thing as rehabilitation for such men !!! Very sorry he hadn't killed himself before he was caught. I am not interested in this man being alive to face up to what he has done - I simply want him off the face of the earth so he can not offend again .

It's just awful, those poor women

If he survives I suppose it will be similar to this case
news.sky.com/story/shropshire-shooting-farmer-jailed-for-life-after-murdering-estranged-wife-in-jealous-rage-11746377
another one who had previous for violence against women. It just isn't taken seriously enough imo Even less so if it is primarily emotional abuse within a domestic setting

And there absolutely will be a history of domestic abuse from him.

They’ve caught him haven’t they ? Wounded and in hospital. I read that there was a connection with the Hunt family, but didn’t realise it was the ex boyfriend of one of his daughters. The poor man and his one remaining daughter have lost everything dear to them and my heart absolutely goes out to them.

I’ve just seen the most crass, insensitive comment on Facebook. Not actually relating to this tragic case but about violence towards women. I’ve reported it to Facebook but they say they won’t remove it as in their opinion it doesn’t incite violence.

This is also a problem
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/theyre-saying-daughters-lives-worth-32015061

JaneJudge

This is also a problem
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/theyre-saying-daughters-lives-worth-32015061

That is absolutely appalling. Murder is murder, wherever it is committed, and women, and some men, deserve much better from our Justice system. Although not holding my breath.

The suspect's brother, Bradley Clifford, is currently serving 'life' in prison for murder. A moped with 2 people on it knocked Clifford's wing mirror from his car. He pursued them through the streets eventually knocking the moped over and although one person on it survived, the other died from their injuries. Not content with crashing into their moped but the person who died was kicked and beaten by Clifford as he lay dying on the road. What a charming pair of brothers they are.

MissAdventure

MissAdventure

www.gransnet.com/forums/chat/1307342-Here-is-a-puzzling-thing?pg=2

This is the discussion I was thinking of.
The one where I was likened to a toddler, always asking why, and told I needed to calm down and stop getting stressed.

I looked up the chat, way before my time on GN and found who made the toddler comment.[surprise]

I will say no more.

Anniebach All murders are unspeakable surely
I think anyone if pushed to the limit could kill either to protect themselves or their loved ones. There are people who murdered their spouse after being mentally or physically abused for years. Some people murder but are not considered dangerous, like the man who helps his terminally ill spouse on her way at her request. It can be a complex scenario and every case is different.

I can perfectly understand how you feel about the death penalty if you knew Timothy Evans's sister. It was so tragic and shocking for everyone involved, but I can't see that ever happening again. He was hanged on the evidence of one man. Nowadays there would be the killer and victim's DNA all over each other and many more criteria to meet. We have come a long way and learnt a lot since then.

JaneJudge

This is also a problem
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/theyre-saying-daughters-lives-worth-32015061

Some of the mothers who are campaigning for proper justice fr their daughters were on the television a little while ago.

Reported in that link from January 2024:
The campaign is backed by Labour leader Keir Starmer and Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper.

Ms Cooper said: “Under the Tories, dangerous domestic abuse perpetrators are being let off and victims are being badly let down. This ­catastrophic collapse in prosecutions and convictions, alongside growing delays in the criminal justice system, is putting vulnerable victims at risk. Enough is enough.

“Labour has set out an unprecedented mission to halve violence against women and girls within 10 years.”

Labour MP Jess Phillips said: “We shouldn’t have something in the law that says if you are killed at home with a weapon from your home, that that’s different to being killed with a weapon that has been taken to the scene. It discriminates against domestic murder, as if women’s lives matter less.”

There may be some hope of the law being changed now.

In this case, of course, the perpetrator took the weapons to the scene.

There are many murders by exes just Google murdered by ex, controlling men can't stand it when they start losing control. Murder suicides too, of partner and/or the children.
So many ask the question, why didn't she just leave hearing about a woman who has been in a violent relationship, but the time round leaving and afterwards is a very dangerous time, many women have to move miles away and basically go into hiding .

Galaxy

That man would have killed those women with or without a crossbow. I have no objection to crossbows needing to be licensed but the issue is violent men.

Exactly. A man like him, hellbent on revenge could have killed them with a kitchen knife, or a wheelbrace. The issue is violent men, not what they use as a weapon.

As a fairly young man, if he gets a long prison sentence, as has his brother, I begrudge the money it costs to keep them incarcerated. Bring back the death penalty for murder - many thugs murder and walk free again within a few years. Wrong however which way you look at it!!

'...And the earth was filled with violence.'

An ex-boyfriend of one of the deceased so I'm fairly certain in assuming this was yet another horrifying case of some caveman walking about with a "if I can't have I'll make sure no-one else can!" attitude towards women (whom they appallingly regard as possessions.)

TanaMa

As a fairly young man, if he gets a long prison sentence, as has his brother, I begrudge the money it costs to keep them incarcerated. Bring back the death penalty for murder - many thugs murder and walk free again within a few years. Wrong however which way you look at it!!

Over the years I have been in favour of and against the death penalty. If life sentences meant exactly that then I would be against the death penalty. However, life often means a few years then the prisoner cons the Parole Board into thinking they are safe to walk the streets and they are released. There is an increase in this type of crime so clearly there is no deterrent and with the overcrowding in prisons, the death penalty may be the right way to go. Too many times we hear about someone, usually a young woman, who has lost her life to a convicted murderer who is out on licence or been released. It surely has to stop. Imagine losing someone you loved in that way.

I am with you Anniebach I m totally against the death penalty You cannot right a wrong with another wrong killing is killing and wrong on all sides
He needs to be in prison for the rest of his life with NO entertainment at all

Bumface

They know who did it, a man called Kyle Clifford. He is still at large. I hope the police catch him soon.

I can't imagine how horrifying it must have been for the three women.

It must be terrible for John Hunt and his other daughter.

They may know who did it, but as far as I know, until he has been tried and found guilty, his name should not have been released to the press, or printed.

The crime is horrific, but the suspect has still the right not to be named until he has been found guilty by a competent court of law.