Child free and smug

Allira

^As I put it - "I've come from a line of women who aren't mums^

Sorry, I'm being a bit dense here but I'm
Is it just me?

No, Allira I too wonder how a person came into existence from a line of women who weren't mothers????

Kandinsky

I personally, think it’s still fairly unusual for a woman to never want children.

I disagree Kandinsky I have friends and a daughter who are quite clear about not wanting children, they are not such a minority.
I was quite clear about not wanting more children in the early 70s but needed my husband's permission to be sterilised. Thank goodness we have moved on.

Aldom

Allira

As I put it - "I've come from a line of women who aren't mums

Sorry, I'm being a bit dense here but I'm
Is it just me?

No, Allira I too wonder how a person came into existence from a line of women who weren't mothers????

It's the heat getting to us Aldom 😁

Cariad I and a lot of other women managed to have babies without it doing any harm to our bodies either at the time or later. Yes, obviously some people do suffer irreversable changes, but to suggest that it is the norm is a gross exageration.

I wanted children and had children, whom I love dearly, but I am not what is described as the 'maternal' type. I was always clear that I intended to return to work at the first practical moment. Both DH and I had working mothers and I had other interests and activities that I also pursued. My parenting philosophy can best be described as good healthy neglect.

It doesn't seem to have harmed my children in anyway. We are still a close family. My DD's decision to be childless was based on her insight into her own personality, the same insight that told her that she could not cope with childrn also told her that the compromises any relationship might require were not within her capapcity.

It certainly was not based on negative experiences in childhood. She always made it absoutely clear that she could bring herself up quite satisfactorily if only her parents would stop interfering.

She is now in her mid 50s and has never regretted her decisions.

We are childless though not from choice. But I wouldn't want children simply to attend to us in old age. I recall a multiparous grannie saying 'the Lord had sent her the last daughter to look after her in old age': that daughter never married.

hollysteers

There are two or three married/with partners female journalists on Instagram who extol the joys of their chosen child free lifestyle and appear disdainful of ‘breeders’.
Of course we can now choose, but they say they knew from say the age of seven they would never have children, are not missing out and don’t regret it.
How do they know?
I had no idea what joy having children would bring me, it wasn’t particularly planned or longed for.
Interestingly, two of them now have dogs and are besotted with them, which shows they do have reserves of love they might have found for children.
How can they be so sure?

Sounds like sour grapes to me!

Growing up I wasn’t really into baby dolls and prams, although I had both. I had no real contact with babies or small children until about 10/11 when my best friend’s brother had a little girl, my own niece and nephews did arrive until I was 15. Again I didn’t really see the joy in a screaming baby or cleaning dirty nappies. I had a miscarriage 18 months after we got married and it was only then it hit me that I did want children. It wasn’t an easy journey but I did go onto have 3 boys and 1 girl. I believe if I hadn’t been able to conceive I’d have divorced my DH, as he turned out to be an amazing uncle, father and I wouldn’t have wanted to deny him the opportunity. We now have 2 gorgeous Gd’s who we get to spend a lot of time with. I could’ve lived without children but am so grateful I didn’t have to.

Galaxy

It is funny how different we all are, the last thing I would ever want is my children caring for me, that is just not what I want for them.

Nor me that is for sure, I have done it myself for many years and know too well what it entails. Definitely not wanted from my child, nor would it be offered. I am so pleased we agree on that one at least.

AuntieE

hollysteers

There are two or three married/with partners female journalists on Instagram who extol the joys of their chosen child free lifestyle and appear disdainful of ‘breeders’.
Of course we can now choose, but they say they knew from say the age of seven they would never have children, are not missing out and don’t regret it.
How do they know?
I had no idea what joy having children would bring me, it wasn’t particularly planned or longed for.
Interestingly, two of them now have dogs and are besotted with them, which shows they do have reserves of love they might have found for children.
How can they be so sure?

Sounds like sour grapes to me!

Not to me. What makes you say that AuntieE:?

Definition of sour grapes:- Saying something is undesirable because they want it themselves and can't have it.

Newsflash: Not all women want children or are jealous of
women who have children.

Galaxy

I am deeply wary of people who speak about how wonderful their lives and choices are.

So am l

You are not allowed to be less than happy an ecstatic 24 hours a day.

Very patronising and really false

Think this may stem from all those shiney, happy fake people on Face Book etc who live in a permanent state of total positivity almost Nirvana like in its construction.

But just wait until the Good Life starts to unravel. Boo hoo

To quote Tony Bennett

Oh, the good life, full of fun seems to be the ideal
Mm, the good life lets you hide all the sadness you feel

Get real people.

My husband and I, have looked after and aided six old folks.My husband's Step Mother and Father. My Mother and Father, and his Mother and Father.
They all lived into great old age, dying at, 90.96,97,94 96 and 83 (my mother was the youngest, who suffered from Dementia) None of them prepared for their old age. They lived in houses unsuitable for frail people full of stuff.
They all became vulnerable through ageing.
Without children they would have had to depend on the honesty and care of strangers.
Knowing what I know now now, about our future, I am so glad that I have children.
We have prepared for our old age. All our paper work is in order, we have downsized and got rid of clutter. It's difficult to absolutely prepare, but we have done all that is humanly possible.
Of course I didn't produce children to look after me, if I develop failing physical and cognitive ability, But I am glad they are there. To suffer dementia and have no one to care, would be terrifying.

Each to their own . When I married at 31 I knew I wanted children and was lucky to have two wonderful DC .
I have a lot of friends who’ve never wanted children , these friends are in their 50s and 60s now and have certainly never been smug . In fact the smug ones are the ones with lots of children and grandchildren and constantly show you photos of their DC and DGC .
I’ve found that the child free friends are very loyal and value their friendships .

SylviaPlathssister

My husband and I, have looked after and aided six old folks.My husband's Step Mother and Father. My Mother and Father, and his Mother and Father.
They all lived into great old age, dying at, 90.96,97,94 96 and 83 (my mother was the youngest, who suffered from Dementia) None of them prepared for their old age. They lived in houses unsuitable for frail people full of stuff.
They all became vulnerable through ageing.
Without children they would have had to depend on the honesty and care of strangers.
Knowing what I know now now, about our future, I am so glad that I have children.
We have prepared for our old age. All our paper work is in order, we have downsized and got rid of clutter. It's difficult to absolutely prepare, but we have done all that is humanly possible.
Of course I didn't produce children to look after me, if I develop failing physical and cognitive ability, But I am glad they are there. To suffer dementia and have no one to care, would be terrifying.

You are very lucky that you will have a loving family looking out for you. Sadly I have no children (not through choice) and no nieces or nephews either, so I will face old age entirely on my own, and you are right, it's terrifying.

My children were in their teens when my husband was diagnosed with a terminal illness, just beginning their Independent lives at university/first jobs.

Then when he died the one thing I wanted more than anything was that they would be able to live the lives they wanted and deserved, without having to alter or curtail them in any way because they felt responsible for me.

Now they are adults, enjoying careers and relationships, edging their way to retirement, I don’t feel any differently. I would never want them to alter their lives, or give up things they really wanted to do, to take care of me in my old age.

I’ve made what provision I can to prevent that, and have made sure they know my expectation is that they will live the lives that are best for them.

There’s something about the attitude of “have children to care for you when you are old” that I find - well - really distasteful I suppose.

I wonder if that expectation is placed more on daughters than sons.

Aldom

Allira

As I put it - "I've come from a line of women who aren't mums

Sorry, I'm being a bit dense here but I'm
Is it just me?

No, Allira I too wonder how a person came into existence from a line of women who weren't mothers????

I use precise language usually. There are "mums" and there are "mothers". "Mums" are motherly/wish to be mums etc. "Mothers" have biologically given birth - but are not warm "mum" figures and didn't particularly want children (but that's what happened).

I had a "mother" (dead now) and I have a "mum" figure (mother of an ex-boyfriend of many years back now) and who wanted to be a "mum" so much that she had that ex-boyfriend about 9 months to the day after getting married and has been going round mothering people ever since.

No-one else has ever asked me what I meant - they knew already the difference between the two words. I've been calling my mother "mother" (rather than "mum") since I was a child......and realised that's what she was.

sodapop

Kandinsky

I personally, think it’s still fairly unusual for a woman to never want children.

I disagree Kandinsky I have friends and a daughter who are quite clear about not wanting children, they are not such a minority.
I was quite clear about not wanting more children in the early 70s but needed my husband's permission to be sterilised. Thank goodness we have moved on.

I hadn't clicked that wives needed a husbands permission to be sterilised!!! Betcha husbands didn't need their wives permission to be sterilised though.........

I wonder if that explains the fact that the NHS refused to sterilise me in my 20's (ie the 1970s) - though I had reached adulthood even by the old definition (over 21). I had to spend 7 years on the Pill before a little article popped up in "Cosmopolitan" magazine saying Marie Stopes clinics were now sterilising women (well they were then.....) and was at one of those clinics literally within weeks handing over the money for that and "Job done".

I'm shocked whenever I realise women still have to argue and/or pay for their sterilisations - but men don't seem to have to do so!!!!!! Either they should do both sexes (yep...quite obviously they should) or neither and not discriminate like this.

There is the argument that even women who don't want children could land up being perfectly responsible "mothers" and ensuring their children are properly fed/housed/health looked after/educated/taught manners - but it's not Society's choice to make. It's their choice to make - obviously.

Some of us just really really don't want that. The odd thing too is that I recall finding someone who was absolutely desperate to be a mum crying her eyes out twice in quick succession - as she'd just found out that (yet again) she still wasnt pregnant. I landed up trying to comfort her twice about it - and the very first person she came to tell at work was me when she then did become pregnant promptly all those years later and her comment was "It's very odd - considering how much I know you DON'T want children and yet you were the one that understood how I felt and how upset I was seemingly not being able to have one. Yet none of the people with children understood like you did".

I had to do mental somersaults and stand my own way of thinking on its head to understand - but I did. Cue for I was in no doubt whatsoever that the pregnancy would work out just fine and she'd have that baby - and her next comment was "Oh....thank you....that's my baby's first present you've just given me". But I could see her little face just shone as soon as she knew she was pregnant the month after I'd caught her crying the second time - after about 10 years of wanting one.

Having a child/children with the selfish intention that they should dedicate themselves to being an "insurance policy" for old age is an appalling ambition.

I think part of loudly proclaiming their satisfaction with being childfree is in direct response of how much criticism they receive. I’ve witnessed people tutting over other people’s reproductive choices, having no hesitation about telling others they’ll regret it later, how selfish they are, that there’s something wrong with them, etc. I have friends who have only one child who’ve been told all of that! Even drs who refuse to give women tubal ligations in case a hypothetical future husband wants kids.

Mr. S. had a vasectomy in the mid 80's CariadAgain and I had to give my consent.

Smileless2012

Mr. S. had a vasectomy in the mid 80's CariadAgain and I had to give my consent.

Pleased to hear there was equality there.

Though, goodness only knows why the medics would think anyone other than the person themselves had a say about this either way. It's up to the woman herself and only her. It's up to the man himself and only him.

I still tend to assume the subject of children is brought up very early on in a relationship - and, at that point, both people can check if they are on the same page on that one.
I know I'd always say pretty much straight off that my personal thing is "Won't ever have children...the End". In the event there was only ever one out of the boyfriends I had that would have been bothered about not having any (ie the others were universally not wanting them or not bothered) and, funnily enough, he was a son of the "Mum" figure I adopted/am still friendly with all this time later. So he went on and had two children with another woman (now adults and he is divorced from their mother now).

The woman is the one that has the pregnancies and childbirth and still tends to have the major parenting role. But the man is basically the one that takes the lions share of paying for raising those children - and is expected to do so...even if he told the woman he wasnt going to have any children ever...but she did so anyway. Yep...I'd have got sterilised even faster if I'd been a man...so much so that I would have stayed a virgin until I was sure that no woman could try and get me to pay for a child I hadnt agreed to have. As a woman - then I had a fallback position for those 7 years until I had the chance of that sterilisation operation (ie I'd have been in a clinic like a shot ensuring the pregnancy stopped). I never needed an abortion in the event - though it would have taken me literally minutes from "Oh h*ck - why didnt the contraception work?" to having booked an appointment to have that.

I am child free by choice and I get so bored when attending groups - all granchildren and baby talk. Friends insist on showing me photos of their grandchildren.

Refreshingly, at my book group we talk about the book and then world events and UK politics. No grandchildren talk!

windmill1

Having a child/children with the selfish intention that they should dedicate themselves to being an "insurance policy" for old age is an appalling ambition.

Oh I agree 100 percent. A lot of women a run absolutely ragged trying to look after elderly parents, work full time and bring up children. It's a lot of pressure to put on your offspring.

It's just that in tbe absence of family, it is worrying to think about who will (or won't) be there for you. In my case I hope to move to a retirement village which has different levels of care which you can switch to as your needs change. However, that requires an awful lot of money, as the fees are very large.

I can't imagine my life without my adult children and grandchildren. One adult child lives five minutes away and one a train journey away and we see them both regularly. They are my world.
I do have childless friends though, and they seem happy with their lives and hobbies, so I get that children are not everyone's choice.

mrsmeldrew

I am child free by choice and I get so bored when attending groups - all granchildren and baby talk. Friends insist on showing me photos of their grandchildren.

Refreshingly, at my book group we talk about the book and then world events and UK politics. No grandchildren talk!

I have a full set of DCs and GCs but I too get bored when the photos come out and the talk turns to how clever and advanced for their age etc.

I love my family dearly and see them regularly but I don't want to share photos and talk about them at every given opportunity neither do I wish to hear all about other people's, usually wonderful, GCs.