An interesting slant on the wearing of a burqa.

rejected

I don't really understand what you mean, are you saying we can only talk about things that are politicised. I don't agree obviously.

Babs03

I can’t think of a faith where waking around naked would be required but there are probably a few cults that require this.

What's the difference between a faith and a cult? Both rely on belief not proof.

Galaxy

I don't really understand what you mean, are you saying we can only talk about things that are politicised. I don't agree obviously.

Well if all discussions are welcome how about discussing married female Hasidic Jews who wear wigs, layers of clothes and thick stockings when married and live in strict patriarchal communities . And let’s see how quickly comments are taken down and posters accused of antisemitism.
You see we actually can’t talk about anything, unless it is pertaining to a group that is fair game right now.
But if we can talk about it let’s do that and talk about liberating other women from different groups in the name of balance.

Babs03

Galaxy

I don't really understand what you mean, are you saying we can only talk about things that are politicised. I don't agree obviously.

Well if all discussions are welcome how about discussing married female Hasidic Jews who wear wigs, layers of clothes and thick stockings when married and live in strict patriarchal communities . And let’s see how quickly comments are taken down and posters accused of antisemitism.
You see we actually can’t talk about anything, unless it is pertaining to a group that is fair game right now.
But if we can talk about it let’s do that and talk about liberating other women from different groups in the name of balance.

Agreed Babs.

Off to google for examples of antisemitism - as I have no idea what anyone means when they throw that word around.

I am happy to talk about Jewish traditions. There are of course numerous accusations of racism on this thread.

As I think I have been made clear I ignore them, along with words such as fascist, far right, etc.

CariadAgain

Babs03

Galaxy

I don't really understand what you mean, are you saying we can only talk about things that are politicised. I don't agree obviously.

Well if all discussions are welcome how about discussing married female Hasidic Jews who wear wigs, layers of clothes and thick stockings when married and live in strict patriarchal communities . And let’s see how quickly comments are taken down and posters accused of antisemitism.
You see we actually can’t talk about anything, unless it is pertaining to a group that is fair game right now.
But if we can talk about it let’s do that and talk about liberating other women from different groups in the name of balance.

Agreed Babs.

Off to google for examples of antisemitism - as I have no idea what anyone means when they throw that word around.

I mentioned the Hasidic Jewish community earlier, particularly the covering of hair by wigs. No reported me for anti semitism because my comment wasn’t anti semitic. I was adding that community of women to other faith groups who appear to fear men will lose control if confronted by hair, bare arms, legs or hint on cleavage

I do hope google ensures you find you begin to “understand what anyone means when they throw that word around “

In my post I did point out that patriarchal control of women is not exclusive to one religion/demographic, it is present in all the Abrahamic faiths and indeed mere cults that spring up from time to time. Coercive control by men over women and their lives has been with us since the beginning of time. I think it's fair to say amongst Muslims, Christians and Jews, there are those who will adhere loosely to their faiths but at the same time wear religion very lightly and don't follow the more unhinged diktats. It's when religions veer off into the extremes they become so dangerous. I include the one I was brought up in. As a teenager, I was completely repulsed when I first read about the Spanish Inquisition, it just made me hate the whole hierarchy of the Catholic church. Religion is ok until it starts to exert extreme control, proselytise and will not tolerate other people's beliefs.

And if I reported Iam64 ( which obviously I have no reason to) the moderators would quite rightly ignore me.

As an aside when I reported my own post that I posted on the wrong thread I was really impressed with how quickly they dealt with it, especially on a weekend.

Galaxy

I am happy to talk about Jewish traditions. There are of course numerous accusations of racism on this thread.

Quite frankly there have been racist comments made, am not sure how numerous they are and am not about to check, nor am I going to waste time tittle tattling about who said what and when.
Racism against Muslims is at record levels in the UK and I do see that reflected on this site, of course antisemitism is also at record levels but I do not see that reflected in the same way on this site.
It appears that one form of racism has become more acceptable than any other, others can dispute that robustly, I expect as much, but believe me I have Muslim members of the family and Muslim friends and they would feel offended by what has been said on this thread, not because they wear a burka or even know anyone who does, but because this topic is a very thin disguise for racist content.
Liberating women from patriarchal constructs of which religion is one affects women all over the world and just honing in on a very small minority because it suits a racist agenda makes a mockery of what feminism is all about.

I again have very little concern about who is offended. This was again something that was thrown at feminists in the gender debate. Many of us have learnt many lessons from that time. One being that absolute danger of be kind.

Oh and of course we were told we were doing feminism wrong then as well.

Babs03

Galaxy

I don't really understand what you mean, are you saying we can only talk about things that are politicised. I don't agree obviously.

Well if all discussions are welcome how about discussing married female Hasidic Jews who wear wigs, layers of clothes and thick stockings when married and live in strict patriarchal communities . And let’s see how quickly comments are taken down and posters accused of antisemitism.
You see we actually can’t talk about anything, unless it is pertaining to a group that is fair game right now.
But if we can talk about it let’s do that and talk about liberating other women from different groups in the name of balance.

That’s nonsense Babs03
Anyone on here can discuss religious Jews who cover their hair with wigs or Catholic women who used to wear a hat or a headscarf or Muslim head coverings.
Jews are probably considered just as fair game if not more, than Muslims btw.
An interesting point about Jewish wigs is that they used to be very stiff and wig like but now women are wearing lovely ones, often long and silky and probably more attractive than their own hair.😄It seems to be accepted.

Babs03

Galaxy

I am happy to talk about Jewish traditions. There are of course numerous accusations of racism on this thread.

Quite frankly there have been racist comments made, am not sure how numerous they are and am not about to check, nor am I going to waste time tittle tattling about who said what and when.
Racism against Muslims is at record levels in the UK and I do see that reflected on this site, of course antisemitism is also at record levels but I do not see that reflected in the same way on this site.
It appears that one form of racism has become more acceptable than any other, others can dispute that robustly, I expect as much, but believe me I have Muslim members of the family and Muslim friends and they would feel offended by what has been said on this thread, not because they wear a burka or even know anyone who does, but because this topic is a very thin disguise for racist content.
Liberating women from patriarchal constructs of which religion is one affects women all over the world and just honing in on a very small minority because it suits a racist agenda makes a mockery of what feminism is all about.

Wrong again!
This topic is an interesting one around the total obliteration of a woman when she is covered up head to toe for no better reason than it was the culture, a backward looking culture, from another country.Upheld and liked by the males in that country.Now living in the UK it would be good for those women to wear the headscarf only and take full part in everything this country has to offer them.

Are there areas in the UK where this is more commonplace? If I go into town to the market I maybe see like one or two women wearing the niqab but no more than that. I've never seen anyone wearing a full burka and our town is very mixed.

AI suggests less than 0.1% muslim women in the UK wear one.

@Oreo

“Wrong again!”

You don’t get to say who is wrong or right Oreo. This is a debate not an exam.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Babs03

@Oreo

“Wrong again!”

You don’t get to say who is wrong or right Oreo. This is a debate not an exam.

Oh but I do, as that’s my opinion.

And areas of London too Primrose53

FWIW Babs03, I done see anti semitism as any less likely to appear on the forum than anti Islamic comments.

The frequent references to parts of the country, such as Leicester or ‘the North’ not recognisable as British seems largely aimed at communities of Pakistani Muslim heritage. My northern mill town has a large such community, living alongside white British, Polish, Ukrainian and increasingly African people. Our small Jewish community settled down the road, along with other Jewish people.

The thing I struggle with is casual racism on gransnet. I’m all for debate about our changing country but ….

The talk was about where you’re likely to see women wearing the burqa and niqab Iam64 so certain places are mentioned.
I would be surprised if it was Cheltenham or Chipping Camden.

Iam64

FWIW Babs03, I done see anti semitism as any less likely to appear on the forum than anti Islamic comments.

The frequent references to parts of the country, such as Leicester or ‘the North’ not recognisable as British seems largely aimed at communities of Pakistani Muslim heritage. My northern mill town has a large such community, living alongside white British, Polish, Ukrainian and increasingly African people. Our small Jewish community settled down the road, along with other Jewish people.

The thing I struggle with is casual racism on gransnet. I’m all for debate about our changing country but ….

It’s facts, not “casual racism”. I answered a question honestly.

Until we acknowledge there is a great divide in cultural practices in human society - as opposed to religious requirements, though the two often go hand in hand - and how, as a free country we choose to accept or reject others' cultural practices without a rascist bias, we will never reach any kind of concensus.

In my opinion, cultural practices are not sacrosanct especially when they are the cause of harm, pain and distress. The cultural requirement to be modest and visually promote that modesty is a demand of men, women do not care. I asked upthread how many on here are in any way bothered about other womens' modesty. Are we?