ANGER

Merlotgran, as I have now said, six or seven times on here (I appreciate you may not have read those posts, so many threads), I had little choice.

* My school closed.
* I discussed it with daughter. Her take on it was that I was the one most at risk, which is indeed the reason the whole family is isolating proper (NO going out for anything).

Many other Brits stayed put and are having to be repatriated by the government. I would have been CASTIGATED on here if I had waited for that. Instead, I evacuated myself. I'm quite aware of the risks involved. I was exceptionally anxious on the flight, which considering I am always anxious flying (hate it), was only slightly below hysterical. Now I'm home, we are doing extreme lockdown. Including washing and isolating groceries after delivery for 3 days. No walks. No going out for anything, unlike most others who go out to walk, shop, exercise animals.

I left a long time before the UK lockdown. Way before the pubs etc were closed. My family waited anxiously for 2 weeks to see if any of us were ill. Grandson WAS ill (over 2 weeks ago now) but neither daughter or myself caught whatever it was.

As an individual, I wish BJ very well. He was very lucky we had such skilled, devoted NHS staff to care for him. I'm glad his girlfriend is OK, particularly in her condition. As a PM however, he has been negligent. The whole lot of them have. They ignored the experts and thought they knew better. And thousands extra have died as a result. BJ is very lucky he wasn't one of them, because by his own account, he nearly was.

Today 10:00GrannyGravy13

Yes Granny Gravy that's mostly what it's about on here and in real life political point scoring, getting the digs in by the left wingers still upset about the stomping Tory majority in the General Election and Boris being PM, still smarting about Brexit. Some can't stand any criticism of China almost in denial about where the virus started but love to run down the UK (especially England) and seem to think everything is wonderful in EU.

I personally think Boris and his team are doing a fantastic job in extremely difficult times, especially the daily news briefing. Obviously looking back perhaps mistakes were made perhaps not its all a learning curve for every country. We have just got to pull together and get through it.

10:05GagaJo

At the end of the day you did what you thought was the best thing to do to protect your family that's all any of us can do.

Firecracker123 I think they are doing their upmost to limit the damage to life and business in unprecedented times. No amount of game/role playing could prepare any Government or Country for Covid-19.

If only MPs (of both parties) could borrow some of the Chrystal Balls from Gransnetters eh!

Lol

No, GrannyGravy13, it was perfectly clear what was happening in other countries (no crystal ball required) yet still, they dragged their heels, still they considered herd immunity - until they had no choice but to take action, then too little, too late!

Hetty58 Until the scientists come up with a credible vaccine every time anyone leaves their home, excepts a delivery whether it be food or something else they risk contracting Covid-19.

You cannot lockdown any Country indefinitely, I am interested to see what will now happen when some Countries start to relax their quarantine conditions, whether they will have a second wave of the virus?

The UK has been in lockdown for just over three weeks and already the media and opposition MPs are demanding an exit strategy to lockdown?

The only thing the world has against Covid-19 at this present time is so-called herd immunity which is why the elderly and those with underlying health conditions are being shielded for at least 12 weeks and according to some Epidemiologists this should be extended indefinitely until a vaccine is found.

I think most people have forgotten about Brexit. The issue is that this government is well and truly floundering with the current crisis. Of course they need to publish their exit strategy. Except I doubt very much that they have one.

Link to an article written by a Profession of Public Health Imperial College
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/15/uk-government-coronavirus-science-who-advice
Vital days lost

Daisymae the exit strategy I was referring to was the reopening of schools, businesses, bars, restaurants, gyms and the ending of lockdown etc., not Brexit related at all.

Well I will nail my colours to the mast. I am a supporter of the Boris Johnson government. However, and it is a big however, I am not satisfied with the way this situation has been handled by our government. The writing was on the wall for a good two months before our government took any action, and the blame in my opinion is the absolutely flawed advice given to our government by the scientists, and the decision made by our government to accept and act on that advice. I watched the televised press release some weeks ago where it was clearly stated that the way forward was herd immunity. As a result of that flawed decision, Cheltenham went ahead and also a massive concert in Cardiff. Around about the 9th March we were all advised against unnecessary travel but no one, including the vulnerable was advised to self isolate (this had a profound effect on my own family as I have a sister with poor mental health, but I won’t go into this now) and eventually on the 16th March the elderly and those with underlying health conditions were told to self isolate. Another week later and we went belatedly into lockdown, a rather loose lockdown in my opinion. Despite Trump, our friends in Las Vegas were in total lockdown before we were in the the UK.
The idea of allowing the population of the UK to acquire herd immunity, thereby accepting the deaths of an estimated half million people, was not only flawed, in my opinion it was immoral. We were bent on following a policy that would sacrifice thousands of people, and why? I appreciate the difficulties, we had a new government only just installed, a new Prime Minister, the Christmas holidays were only just over, Brexit was on the agenda, and the British people are very independent and it was thought they wouldn’t respond well to being told what to do. As it happens the majority of the British people are very much behind the lockdown.
Therefore I blame the scientists, the economists (still advocating money before lives) and the government’s decision to listen to these people rather than follow the WHO advice and rather than look at Italy, Spain, China, and the behaviour of other countries.
And so we have the result!

I am delighted that Boris Johnson has recovered from Coronavirus. Not only for himself and his family and partner, but as a country, the last thing we needed at this time was the death of our Prime Minister.

And I’ve just heard on Sky News somebody (missed the name) is yet again demanding an exit strategy! How dare they? How dare they?

I think the suffering that will result from economic disaster will be far greater than the effects of the virus. The virus will not go away, so herd immunity is the only option until a vaccine can be found. It's a tragic lottery and we are all at risk, even younger members of our families. But the effects of an economic crash will cause untold long-term suffering and be very hard to undo. So my vote is to get the economy up and running as soon as possible.

Absolutely maddy, a very belated and lax lockdown compared to other countries.

Im curious where the “experts” were getting their vastly different information compared to the countries that did lock down quickly after watching Italy, Spain and China.

The article states that the government ignored the advice to lockdown in fact the public started to lockdown itself ahead of government advice. It perfectly reasonable to publish an exit strategy now. Does not have to have a start date, but there does need to be a plan

Well said Saisymae. The person asking the government to publish an exit strategy is Keir Starmer. As leader of the opposition, its his job to ask questions and hold the government to account. So far, so good for Starmer. He isn't attacking the government, he's being constructive and to ask what the exit strategy is, doesn't demand we stop the current isolation, it ensures there will be a proper debate about the proposals.

Daisymae, it's too soon. We haven't had time yet to see the results of lockdown. Infection, incubation, 5-6 days of illness, then possible breathing problems, pneumonia, hospitalisation and death - were talking around four weeks or more.

Then there can be a five day delay in weekend deaths being included in the figures - so far too soon. It's good to start discussing it, of course, but there are so many unknowns.

Thank you for your post, maddyone.

I wonder if you could clarify this statement, though. Perhaps give us some examples. Because my impression is that it isn't economists who are calling for an early end to lockdown, but politicians, such as Patel and Raab, and right wing neo-liberals such a Hannan. Perhaps you could give us some names of economists who are pushing this?

Therefore I blame ............, the economists (still advocating money before lives)

I think the sheer hopelessness of the government's handling of this crisis so far should point very strongly to the need for a clear and carefully thought out exit strategy. Otherwise we'll just get another load of confusing ad hoc decisions.

As someone else had noted, it doesn't have to be immediately implemented, just planned for.

I agree Hetty it’s far too soon to talk about exit strategies. We need to get on top of the death rates first. Thank you Iam for providing the name. I’m sure that Keir Starmer will prove to be an effective and diligent Leader of the Opposition, but now is not the time to be pushing exit strategies. We are nowhere near ready yet to even think about coming out of lockdown. No one, the press, the Leader of the Opposition, the economists, should be pushing our government towards ending the lockdown. We were far too slow entering lockdown in my opinion, and we’ve not yet been locked down for four weeks even. Other countries have been locked down for 12/13 weeks before loosening the lockdown.
We need to start listening and taking notice of other countries and stop being so worried about the economy. At what price is a good economy? Twelve thousand deaths? Fifteen thousand? Twenty? Thirty? A hundred thousand? No, save lives first. Then the economy.

Maizie crossed posts I think.
I’ll have to pay more attention to the economists advocating exit strategies, I’m not so focused as you and others on links etc so for that I apologise. It’s simply that when watching news reports on television I pick up on the main story rather than the names. You may very well be right because certainly members of government and the Cabinet are pondering the staged end of lockdown, such as possibly schools opening in May. But I do know that worries about the economy have been consistently raised, often by journalists. My feelings are that no end of lockdown, staged or otherwise, should be contemplated until we have the death rate and infection rate under some sort of control.
As I said in my post of 12.05, we were too slow to act, I don’t think we should be too quick to end lockdown. This is because I, like others, value lives above the economy. So apologies for lack of names, other than government.
I have seen today that a group named SAGE advise the government on scientific and health matters, but the government refuse to name the people who sit on that group, possibly to protect them from the public. Maybe it is the same with economists, because as sure as eggs are eggs, they will have advisors on the economy.
Sorry to not be much help.

Nothing straight forward about this situation.

in fact the public started to lockdown itself ahead of government advice

If only Daisymae !
It was that first weekend after we were advised to avoid crowded places, beauty spots, parks and beaches when the population thronged out in force!
It was being treated like a Bank Holiday weekend, fuelled buy the glorious weather, the fact that Monday morning had effectively been cancelled for school children and a large percentage of the workforce who would be staying in their PJ’s to WHF
We are reaping the consequences - 3 weeks later from that madness.
We were too slow to lock down - there should have been no “advisory period” or blind eyes turned to the odd pub which stayed open the following weekend when they were officially closed. Just as Italy created a window of opportunity for N Italians to leave Lombardy during the 48 hour period of notice they were given we did too little too late.
20/20 hindsight is a wonderful,thing, but why do we (people in general) never learn.

WFH not WHF!

Couldn't agree more Maw.

Care homes should use some of their profits to purchase PPE/tests for staff - not be relying on NHS to supply them