ANGER

I feel a bit like a pawn in a game - and one that I will lose no doubt.

We are powerless to do anything about the situation in which we find ourselves. We can all rant and rave (as indeed I have done) about the handling of this crisis, but we can do nothing, absolutely nothing.

At the beginning when it reached Europe...........
- why no closing of borders?
- why no quarantine of all incomers?
- why no contact tracing? - such a basic strategy.
- why no testing?

Going back further............
- why were the public not up in arms about the underfunding of the NHS and public services?
- how did we finish up with a government that cared not one whit about public services?

It has been a pig's ear from start to finish. And it is people like us who will pay the price - locked in till a vaccine is found. I had "the letter" this morning from the NHS - a bit late, but there it is. Stay at home for the foreseeable future.

We should never have found ourselves in this situation. We live on an island which is ideally situated to keep the population safe, but failed to do so.

But getting angry now is too late - we are wholly impotent.

why were the public not up in arms about the underfunding of the NHS and public services?

Some of the public were up in arms about the underfunding of the NHS and public services. Unfortunately they were considered to be looney lefties who couldn't understand that the sole function of any service is to make a profit for the person/company running it.

The other factor was that the public was convinced that a national budget is the same as a household budget and that expenditure on public services was somehow 'wasting' taxpayers' money. The tories, post 2010, using that analogy, managed to convince 'the public' that the way to improve the national economy was to starve it of money...

We are supposed to be civilised and enlightened in the 21st C. That being so it's time we took a good look at exactly what we want from 'society' and our governance. Maybe we could identify some different priorities...

MaizieD - indeed so.

We were fed one economic theory as fact and the voters fell for it. Iniquitous.

Luckgirl
I absolutely agree with you about our borders not being closed, the lack of quarantine for people entering the country, and no testing or contact tracing. It’s appalling that none of this was done. Our government was slow and in my opinion complacent and I primarily blame the scientists who advised on ‘herd immunity.’

Can I just repeat - Keir Starmer isn’t demanding we exit lockdown. He’s asking the government to set out its current plans. Obviously they can’t be set in store but we need to have debate. We only need to look at the shifting sands approach initially, herd approach, whoops no that may Be wrong, social distance a bit but no problem with Cheltenham races etc. Serious shortages of PPE.
The government will be discussing an exit strategy, why won’t it be open .

Iam 64 et al who want an ' Exit Strategy'

The problem I have with Starmer saying he wants the government to publish an ' Exit Strategy ' is the fact he was being interviewed about a week ago when he started with this Exit Strategy business. , I think it was on Sky News, and when questioned with something along the lines of ' what if the government published an Exit Strategy and things changed, the data changed'? '

Starmer said. ' Well the Exit Strategy would have to change accordingly'.

That makes no sense and it makes me think it is loose talk. I think at the moment it would not be feasible to produce an Exit Strategy and to be honest I would have little faith in one anyway as we are nowhere near to that happening.

Unless the ' Exit Strategy ' consists of factual content it will have no meaning but ties the Government , Civil Service, NHS etc. etc. to producing ' possibilities/maybe' s' at a time their resources are stretched to the limit and their focus should be on the here and now.

I am quite sure an exit strategy is being developed; looking at other countries who were afflicted before us, looking at what works and what does not.

I understand that POGS and I expect Starmer does
I don’t expect I’ll be out and about in anything like a normal way until September. There’s talk of schools being back by August. We do need strategies for short medium and long term. I’d be surprised if the Aren’t under discussion and would welcome more open discussion.
I recognise care is needed, we don’t want panic ?

Perhaps Sir Kier Starmer is wondering if they really have any cohesive strategy.

I think any government would struggle with what has happened in the last weeks. I do believe our government delayed too long before enacting the lockdown, and for that I blame the advice they received and acted upon. However whatever the persuasion of the government I believe it would be impossible for them not to struggle. The level of this pandemic is like nothing in living memory. We, like the rest of the world, are learning on the hoof.
And I believe it is far too soon to begin talking about exit strategies, although it will certainly be being discussed by the government.

maddyone ' We, like the rest of the world, are learning on the hoof.'

No, our government (not 'we') had the advantage of observing the (experimental) measures and results of others. The most disadvantaged were countries where the virus hit first.

They acted too slowly - on the wrong advice, ignoring that of the WHO.

There is no consistent scientific advice to act on, anyway. There are various 'experts' with opposing views, so a range of advice to choose from.

I'm so sick of hearing the 'acting on scientific advice' they repeatedly parrot. You can't blame the advice itself.

You need to blame their choices. How can you defend them when they've caused unnecessary loss of life!

Hetty
I’m absolutely not defending them for being too slow to react, see my earlier post on this thread if you think that. I won’t spout it all again, just look back at the post. Why on earth would you think I was defending them? Whatever you think though Hetty, the scientific advice which was followed was to allow Britain to acquire herd immunity, and as I stated earlier, I think that was immoral. But if you think any other government would have acted differently, then you are mistaken. The government listens to its advisers, that’s why they have advisers, and the advisers are the so called experts. The scientific advice in Britain was completely the opposite to the advice been given out by the WHO and scientists in other countries. Why? I have no idea, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that a different government would have acted in a different way, they would have had the same advisers.

It's not premature at all to publish the principles of an exit strategy, which is what understand Starmer wants. I don't think he's demanding an exact time line.

A number of issues have caused me concern.

Firstly, there is pressure for schools to re-open as soon as possible. I can understand the problems with childcare for younger children, the fact that there is likely to be an increase in educational inequality and the fact that some parents just do not know with their children, especially if they're trying to work from home.

Nevertheless, anybody who thinks that children can be kept two metres apart in a classroom have either never been a classroom or don't know any children (or both). Teachers have not been promised any PPE and are, rightly, worried about working in such an infection-ridden atmosphere. Children themselves might be asymptomatic but they can be carriers are likely to spread infection through communities.

Secondly, there is pressure from businesses to return to something like normality. Again, I can understand the concerns. People aren't being paid, but rents and bills continue to mount up. A recession is certain.

However, more businesses open mean that more people will need public transport, leading to overcrowding and putting transport workers at risk. People interacting in the workplace will lead to increases in transmission.

The kind of exit strategy we should have would be termed in general principles, such as "we will do X, only if Y happens" or "we won't do X, if Y is still occurring" or " we will put … strategy in place to protect key workers" or "we understand there is a trade off between the needs of business and an increase in infection rates, so will do …", etc etc etc.

Sorry for the omitted words (blame it on a sticky keyboard, a habit of writing in notes and laziness in proof reading).

which is what I understand Starmer wants.
some parents just do not know what to do with their children
never been in a classroom
carriers and are

I don't have a problem with the government not yet discussing what an exit strategy might look like. Judging by other threads where folk openly declare they are making up their own rules about lockdown, I think to even begin to discuss exit strategy well ahead of time will just cause confusion. Those who express concern about getting the economy re-started should surely be perfectly capable of planning for a range of strategies to cover how lockdown might be lifted.

GrannyLaine
I agree with you, in fact I actually think it’s premature to be discussing exit strategies at the moment. The journalists seem to be the worst offenders, they constantly push government speakers to tell them when, where, and how we’re going to end the lockdown. I’m sure it will be being discussed behind closed doors by the relevant authorities, but now is not the time to discuss it openly, in my opinion.

Anger is very draining and not what is needed right now. We need to bind together and make this a better world when the virus is gone. Anger wouldn’t help..

growstuff
I also agree with your post, in particular about the ability to maintain two metres of distance between pupils and staff in schools.

.......anybody who thinks that children can be kept two metres apart in a classroom have either never been in a classroom or don’t know any children (or both.)

How absolutely true is this growstuff well said.

The Government won't provide an exit strategy while BJ is on sick leave thats my opinion. Rabb is just giving us data and waffle in his daily briefings and nothing will be decided until BJ is back in No 10.
I feel anger at this Government handling of the situation and I also feel anger at all you Tory votes who go out side and clap for the NHS on Thursday.

This is and has been a challenging time for everyone in the world in a variety of ways. It's human nature when one has been thwarted or upset or hurt in any way to look for someone or something to blame. Sometimes there just isn't any clear culprit. It would have been better if China had been quicker off the mark and more open about it but they weren't.
I sincerely believe that our government is doing its very best to help the country to ride out this storm.
Anger is a waste of energy better put into other use.

How would you feel if a Conservative voting doctor was looking after your loved ones Barmeyoldbat?

There's quite a few of them around

What on earth makes you connect clapping for the NHS with voting Tory, Barmeyoldbat ? feeling angry at " . . all you Tory votes who go out side and clap for the NHS on Thursday"

The appreciation is for the staff of the NHS and other essential workers, who are at the sharp end, caring for those who need them.

Don't be simplistic - differentiate between the generals and the foot sloggers, please. Praising the bravery of the WW1 soldiers who went out onto battlefields bristling with barbed wire and reeking of mustard gas wouldn't be at all the same thing as congratulating those who sent them there, or as glorifying war.

I agree with those (experts) who say the government acted to slowly. Getting angry about that helps nobody, doesn't change anything. We need to reflect and learn from mistakes, not start into some polarised, angry row about it. Wouldn't it be something if MatHancock acknowledged mistakes have been made, thats what happens, especially in unprecedented times. Its one of the reasons I agree with Starmer, we need to be open in discussing possible exit strategies.

I'm not sure that Barmeyoldbat is equating the clappers with being tory. I think that what she is saying is that those clappers who voted tory connived at the hollowing out of the NHS (and helped to elect MPs who cheered when the proposal to increase nurse's pay was defeated). Which has a certain irony, hasn't it?

I'm sure that most tory voters do so with the best of intentions, but do they ever look at the actions of their MPs and ask themselves 'Is that what I voted for?'

The majority of the Dr at my surgery vote Labour.
The reason for anger at the voters is because they have voted in a Government that has run the NHS to the ground through lack of funding and even clapped when the nurses pay rise was rejected but are quite happy clapping on a Thursday. I know of 2 nurses and all my family who are essential and NHS workers certainly think its two faced.