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Cummings on Sage?

(32 Posts)
Daisymae Fri 24-Apr-20 19:42:52

All along we have been told that the government is following the best scientific advice. However according to this article Cummings and another adviser have been on this supposedly independent body:
This must raise a massive amount of questions?

Greta8 Fri 24-Apr-20 20:06:25

Absolutely. Makes you think it's actually Cummings who's running the country. Just when you think things couldn't get worse....................

SirChenjin Fri 24-Apr-20 20:54:01

I’m not at all surprised. Where’s there’s numbers there’s Cummings, with all his little models and forecasts. Boris appears to be in thrall to the man for some reason.

growstuff Fri 24-Apr-20 20:59:22

And the government still keeps coming up with the line that it's being guided by the science. It would instil more confidence to know that SAGE really is apolitical and not influenced by Johnson's right hand man and his mate. No wonder some of the scientists have seemed to be tetchy over the last couple of weeks and somebody has been responsible for a leak. I would imagine they're totally fed up.

GagaJo Fri 24-Apr-20 21:34:09

Cummings is of course in control. Boris us the front man. Why is anyone surprised

GagaJo Fri 24-Apr-20 21:36:35

growstuff, no wonder so many are dead. Cummings guiding the scientific advice. He always did want herd immunity and a culling of the non-contributing elderly.

MaizieD Fri 24-Apr-20 21:53:34

Well, we can no longer (if we ever did) trust the government to be telling the truth when they keep repeating that they've been following the science. There are now huge question marks over the independence of the scientific advice they've been supposedly following.

I wonder how comfortable the scientists who partake in the daily press events feel with the 'science' being offered to the public?

May7 Fri 24-Apr-20 22:05:15

We noticed Chris Whittie was looking a bit frazzled edgy uncomfortable at the briefing. It made me nervous about the science too. Also they keep changing the charts why? and China are no longer on the Global chart

Hetty58 Fri 24-Apr-20 22:11:34

Since when have scientists been in agreement? I'm irritated every time they mention 'scientific advice'. Which advice?
There's a choice of advice. They sound like they're talking to small children.

MaizieD Fri 24-Apr-20 22:21:30

Which advice, Hetty?

Well, it looks as though it's the nonscientist's advice!

Since when have scientists been in agreement?

That, to me, is about as nihilistic statement as 'all politicians tell lies'.

Who do you suggest we take notice of, then?

Whitewavemark2 Sat 25-Apr-20 08:06:26

So public can no longer be confident that the advise from SAGE is unadulteratedly independent.

Cummings is behaving way above his pay grade and ability, and we are being poorly served.

Daisymae Sat 25-Apr-20 08:08:43

The chief government advisor on what has always been an independent group giving independent advice.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 25-Apr-20 08:38:15

Of course one would indeed hope that the meetings were conducted properly, but with Cummings attending he will be fully aware as a result of the advise that was put aside and therefore able to advise Johnson of the other possibility other than the advise given to the government by SAGE.

It therefore becomes a political choice rather than action based on scientific advise.

This will blow up in Johnson’s face, as previously he could say it wasn’t me guck it was the scientists what advised it.

He can no longer do that.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 25-Apr-20 08:38:55

Guck!!, guv. Obvs.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 25-Apr-20 14:42:37

Strange times when I find myself agreeing with Davis

David Davis
· 4h
We should publish the membership of SAGE: remove any non-scientist members: publish their advice in full: and publish dissenting opinions with the advice.

Oopsadaisy3 Sat 25-Apr-20 14:45:32

The Government has to come clean over this and very soon.
Preferably today and then publish all the minutes of the meetings that Cummings has attended.

MaizieD Sat 25-Apr-20 16:18:19

Who is going to make them do that?

Will there be any probing questions about this from the journalists at this afternoon's press conference?

Will any of tomorrow's papers run critical articles on it?

Already the BBC has had Cumming's wife on R4 Today telling us about his battle with covid-19 and what a nice man he is. Why on earth should that be even considered as a news item, unless to deflect attention from the more critical story about her husband?

There are no checks on this government. They are free to do whatever they want.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 25-Apr-20 16:26:57

God knows maizie

trisher Sat 25-Apr-20 18:43:20

We effectively have a PM who has handed everything over to his chief adviser who has always been running things. It's the end of democracy really. Boris is the front man and Cummings is pulling the strings.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 25-Apr-20 19:17:02

I wonder what history will make of this period. It will make interesting reading.

NfkDumpling Sat 25-Apr-20 19:23:55

I was concerned about the amount of power and influence Alastair Campbell had but Dominic Cummings seems to have taken it to a whole new level.

Urmstongran Sat 25-Apr-20 19:54:23

DC is a SpAd. Of course he should be there. If Boris isn’t.

MaizieD Sat 25-Apr-20 20:23:51

There is absolutely no reason why Cummings should be at a SAGE meeting, apart from as an observer, perhaps.

From the article:

"Former chief scientific adviser, Sir David King, said he was shocked to discover there were political advisers on Sage."

"David Liddington .... de facto deputy to Theresa May .... said 'I'm not aware of any minister or special adviser, ...., ever having been involved in the scientific advisory panels..."

"Other Sage participants told the Guardian that the Downing Street afvisers were not merely observing the advisory meetings but were actively participating is discussions about the formulation of advice"

Cummings is not a scientist. Repeat; not a scientist. He has no place on the panel. Nor any right to be formulating scientific advice.

I really don't think that some tory supporters have any idea about what is and is not appropriate for Cummings to have involvement in.

Bloody Boris shouldn't be there, either.

Daisymae Sat 25-Apr-20 23:04:47

Cummins is no shrinking violet. It's hard to imagine any meeting where he has just taken the role of observer. The full minutes must be published. The plea that we are just going along with the science has never sounded more hollow

SirChenjin Sat 25-Apr-20 23:38:08

We are going along with the science that Dom deems is appropriate.