Why we are still in deep trouble

Which is why squabbling about counting methods, dithering, obfuscation and inefficiency isn't acceptable. I'm fed up of the lying and excuses.

But it's not 'squabbling', is it? It's trying to whitewash the government by its supporters.

I was about to say what JE said at 11.56. For years some of us have been saying the country is overcrowded and services stretched to breaking point because of this. Because of this truth we are labelled as racist. There isn’t the huge money tree that some like to imagine.

Too many making political capital out of this disaster which is vile and monstrous in my view.

Maisie : Do you seriously think any other political party would have coped any better? Labour seems to be intent on destroying their own party and would probably still be arguing who should be in charge and then issuing court proceedings against whichever poor sucker they decided on. Starmer is struggling to get a grip and only half the party seem to be supporting him. Their gigantic egos are killing off any support they may have left.

Nobody will ever know the true figure of how many people have died

Excess deaths have been lower than average in England for the last 6 weeks though

I am absolutely not racist. White people congregating on beaches and in bars and streets, black people on marches, people celebrating Eid in huge family groups. It’s all the same to me, they are all helping spread the virus. The scenes in London the weekend the pubs opened appalled me, people squashed together, mainly young people. Now we’re being told the virus is being spread by families meeting indoors in large groups, why can’t they meet in their gardens? Young people are also now said to be spreading the virus due to refusal to follow social distancing, especially after a night out and drinking alcohol.
We reap what we sow. We’ll see the results over the next few months.

And all the people rushing off the Spain, a country with high cases of Covid19. There are other places which are safer if they want to go on holiday.

Sussexborn

I was about to say what JE said at 11.56. For years some of us have been saying the country is overcrowded and services stretched to breaking point because of this. Because of this truth we are labelled as racist. There isn’t the huge money tree that some like to imagine.

Too many making political capital out of this disaster which is vile and monstrous in my view.

I don't understand your reasoning. Services are stretched to breaking point because they're underfunded. Your claim is not not a truth.

Too many people handing out contracts to their mates, which certainly is vile and monstrous.

maddyone

I am absolutely not racist. White people congregating on beaches and in bars and streets, black people on marches, people celebrating Eid in huge family groups. It’s all the same to me, they are all helping spread the virus. The scenes in London the weekend the pubs opened appalled me, people squashed together, mainly young people. Now we’re being told the virus is being spread by families meeting indoors in large groups, why can’t they meet in their gardens? Young people are also now said to be spreading the virus due to refusal to follow social distancing, especially after a night out and drinking alcohol.
We reap what we sow. We’ll see the results over the next few months.

What about Trafford? It's a white, relatively wealthy area, but has one of the highest infection rates in Greater Manchester.

Why is the infection rate in my area (very white and very wealthy and, on average, with a disproportionate number of over 60s) increasing?

Sussexborn

Maisie : Do you seriously think any other political party would have coped any better? Labour seems to be intent on destroying their own party and would probably still be arguing who should be in charge and then issuing court proceedings against whichever poor sucker they decided on. Starmer is struggling to get a grip and only half the party seem to be supporting him. Their gigantic egos are killing off any support they may have left.

Now who's making political capital?

This government is doing an appalling job!

MaizieD

^Which is why squabbling about counting methods, dithering, obfuscation and inefficiency isn't acceptable. I'm fed up of the lying and excuses.^

But it's not 'squabbling', is it? It's trying to whitewash the government by its supporters.

I was being generous.

Well said urmstongran. IOM government shut their borders late March and have had no cases for 75 days. All back to normal, apart from travelling which is allowed, but followed by 14 days quarantine.

Goodness knows how deep the world recession will be.

I have heard that anyone arriving was made to quarantine for 14 days in hotels
Callistemon As you've also heard every State is enforcing rules similar to Victoria regarding 14 days quarantine in hotels for new arrivals. I've also heard that early on, the guards were from a private company and not well trained in the duties required of them, and rumour also has it that some were accused of , wait for it, having sex with detainees and of course moving on to spread whatever other nasties they may have caught.
So I wouldn't rely on "rumours" as a reliable information source.
As you know, we are under an 8pm to 5am curfew and a lot of dedicated professional people are working very hard to overcome an unprecedented threat to us all'
I have every confidence in them and wish them well!
And believe it or not, we are still seeing ladies on TV News fighting for their "rights" by refusing to wear a mask!
Sorry about this plug for our professionals, but I just happen to live here in Melbourne and so have more than just a passing interest in OZ.
Good Health
OoRoo

BTW For herd immunity to be achieved, at least 60% of the population would need to be immune (preferably 80%).

It would be a good idea if more people could be tested to see if they have had the virus if they think they may have had it. It would also be interesting to know just how long antibodies, therefore immunity, last in the system.

Getting an antibody test is well nigh impossible and the results could be equivocal anyway as yet.

Callistemon

^BTW For herd immunity to be achieved, at least 60% of the population would need to be immune (preferably 80%).^

It would be a good idea if more people could be tested to see if they have had the virus if they think they may have had it. It would also be interesting to know just how long antibodies, therefore immunity, last in the system.

Getting an antibody test is well nigh impossible and the results could be equivocal anyway as yet.

I agree. We need far more testing of all sorts. We also need local, up-to-date data, so that individual areas (even buildings) can be targeted. We need to know more about what's going on without all the fudging and lies.

Rufus I'm not relying on rumours.
Yes, I have heard the stories of the guards too, whether or not it is true in a couple of isolated case.
I also know that three young women have been detained in Queensland having been on a shopping spree in Melbourne, then on to Sydney. They denied having been to Melbourne and have brought COIVID back with them to Brisbane as they went clubbing on their return and have tested positive.

The trouble with antibody tests is that they're not very accurate. They can give an indication of community infection by comparing one time period to the next. However, for the individual person, they're no absolute guarantee of immunity, so aren't that useful.

Yes growstuff I absolutely agree with you re Trafford, I know it has a very high infection rate. I would guess, but don’t know, that the high infection rate there is possibly caused by people going out, to pubs, restaurants, and The Trafford Centre shopping. It’s also a highly populated area. My parents lived in Cheshire and I was brought up there. The whole of Greater Manchester is now in semi lockdown. My dear friend from school is upset about it, they’ve been following the guidelines.
There is a huge drinking culture in the area. Some members of my family go to the pub and drink a lot. All middle class people who work or worked in middle class jobs. The drinking culture is rife throughout society with many young people. It is a huge culture with many in the north west. I’m not suggesting you are a heavy drinker growstuff.

The economy needs normality now.

do you think No Deal will really provide that?

My daughter is a young person (27) living in Manchester. Please don't lump them all together as great drinkers.

She's also HR manager of quite a large company and has been tearing her hair out trying to find solutions to keeping people working in safety.

biba70

*The economy needs normality now.*

do you think No Deal will really provide that?

No, but it Covid-19 will be an ideal scapegoat.

growstuff

My daughter is a young person (27) living in Manchester. Please don't lump them all together as great drinkers.

She's also HR manager of quite a large company and has been tearing her hair out trying to find solutions to keeping people working in safety.

PS. I come from the North West.

I’m not lumping them all together growstuff but it cannot be denied that there is a drinking culture among many younger people, all over the country. However when I’ve been to the north west for family celebrations, I’ve seen at first hand how strong the drinking culture is with both the younger members of the family/friends and with older people of my generation.

The government has made numerous mistakes in the management of this pandemic which has cost many lives, and perhaps any government would have had difficulty in dealing with such an unprecedented situation. What I find inexcusable is that they fail to acknowledge and importantly learn from their mistakes.

The point of this post IMO is that they are continuing to do so, and bypassing expertise, in this case almost 70 leading clinical virologists, with testing contracts awarded on apparently ideological grounds to private sector companies, rather than based on expertise.

There should be far more accountability about how contracts are awarded, and private testing companies should at the very least be partnered with the NHS or PHE so that there is some over all control.

I know you hail from the north west growstuff and so do I. My entire family live in the north west, except our children and ourselves. We came south years ago for my husband’s work. Our children were born in the south. My mother came south and lives in a sheltered apartment near to me after Dad died. We regularly (before Covid19) travel back to the north west to visit family and friends.

whether or not it is true
Callistemon Cripes! You were quick! I was only away 6 mins having a toilet break, (no prostate problems here after that op.!) Although that too sounds like a rumour!
Your quote, I mean!
Just to avoid any accusations of gender bias, the Queensland PM announced today that three "fellers" have only just done what those three girls did.
I'd support a "Name and Shame" policy any day of the week!
Now I'm off to the Good Evening Chewsday thread for a bit of RandR!
OoRoo