New colleague won’t adhere to workplace policies

It's a pity we did away with the stocks ? Then all these transgressors could be publicly shamed.

CanadianGran

I don't feel sorry for 'the poor woman'. The OP suspected she is not washing her hands, paid attention to noises and confirmed her suspicions. This is a charity job and most likely does not have a safety inspector, etc.

I feel we cannot be responsible for others actions, and can only be responsible for ourselves. You can hint about the taps taking too long to get warm, or the scent of the soap and perhaps she will get the hint. In the meantime, you are washing your hands, and make sure to grab a tissue or paper towel to open the door on the way out. Then your hands remain clean.

You don't say how physically closely you work with this woman. Do you share a desk area, or computer etc? Is there any way that you don't have to touch what she touches? As long as you don't have to touch joint surfaces with her, then you should be fine.

Good grief, ‘you don’t have to touch what she touches’, the poor woman is not a leper. How spiteful and nasty. I notice this is a charity that the OP works for and the woman who is being ‘bullied‘ (for that is what it is, whispering about her and setting traps) is a volunteer, instead of someone having a word with her about hand washing someone should warn her about the nasty colleagues she works with.

I agree with what Doodledog has posted.

The OP makes the assumption that this woman does not wash her hands or clean round after herself simply because she does not hear two bangs of the bin lid!

Other posters are assuming that because someone may offer an alternative viewpoint they have never suffered a serious illness.

Both are jumping to conclusions on little or no evidence.

I don't feel sorry for 'the poor woman'. The OP suspected she is not washing her hands, paid attention to noises and confirmed her suspicions. This is a charity job and most likely does not have a safety inspector, etc.

I feel we cannot be responsible for others actions, and can only be responsible for ourselves. You can hint about the taps taking too long to get warm, or the scent of the soap and perhaps she will get the hint. In the meantime, you are washing your hands, and make sure to grab a tissue or paper towel to open the door on the way out. Then your hands remain clean.

You don't say how physically closely you work with this woman. Do you share a desk area, or computer etc? Is there any way that you don't have to touch what she touches? As long as you don't have to touch joint surfaces with her, then you should be fine.

But nobody is defending the practice of not washing hands after using the loo. I'm sure we are all well aware that this is negligent and unhygienic, and I haven't seen a single post that suggests that hygiene doesn't matter.

What those of us taking issue with the OP are saying is that the OP cannot know what goes on in the privacy of the lavatory, and that her behaviour (eg planting wipes in such a way as to see if they have been moved, and listening out for the clang of the bin) is unpleasant and potentially entrapment.

The idea that a CEO would want to be bothered by this sort of thing, with no proof is ridiculous. What is she supposed to do? Cross question a member of staff about how she behaves in the lavatory? People have even mentioned disciplinary action. To instigate this with no proof could lead to a tribunal or action for constructive dismissal.

It is a massive leap to assume that pointing this out means that we are 'callous', or that we have never been ill - the same logic (or lack of it) that leads the OP to jump to the conclusion that because 'most people' clatter the bin when they deposit a wipe means that the 'nice enough' colleague should necessarily do the same or not be washing her hands or wiping down surfaces.

I feel sorry for the poor woman - imagine working somewhere where colleagues monitor your behaviour in the loo, set traps for you, listen when you are in there, discuss you with others (and online) and consider involving the CEO about how you conduct yourself when you think you are in private.

BazingaGranny is spot on. When I was teaching, I couldn't help noticing just how many grown women (teachers and administrators) failed to wash their hands after using the loo. Utterly disgusting behaviour.

Of course, we all went through the same corridors (with swing fire doors) used the lifts, offices and classrooms.

I tried not to touch anything, complained about the (visibly dirty) door plates/handles - and got personnel to send a staff 'reminder' email about hand washing. All before I retired, and pre-Covid, thank Heavens. Nothing changed, so I developed a habit of washing before I left, backing out of the door!

it's not just the WC/basin area though, is it.
if this person never washes her hands and is touching items around the work area, anything can be transferred.
i feel for you OP.

I am shocked by the callous responses on here ot OP

Clearly many of you have been lucky enough to have never been very ill.
That is what changes perspective.

If this new volunteer is not being hygenic then someone should speak to her.

Would you all be so blase if it was your loved one who is vulnerable? And sharing this space?

we simply don't yet know enough yet to be telling anyone it doesn't matter if she washes her hands/wipes surfaces.

You do not know what matters yet. but the world does have a pandemic and many are ill and also many are dying.

I would clean the basin and loo etc myself no matter who had been in there before me - whether or not your new colleague is cleaning is immaterial, I simply don’t believe that everyone else will ALWAYS clean properly!

Have worked in too many hospitals, including ITU and A&E to believe that everyone remembers hygiene every time!

Sorry to be blunt, but ..... ! ?

Just to say that when I worked as a personal assistant to disabled people our training informed us that hand sanitizer was a very poor substitute for washing with soap and water. Also on cruises many extra sinks were installed by the dining room to prevent the spread of germs. Sanitizer needs to stay wet for several minutes to be effective and also go under nail tips. Washing your hands well is the best protection as its the most effective

Frankie51

She's acting in a risky way, careless with regards to her colleagues safety.
She's dangerous. Just as dangerous as a health and safety breach in normal times. She's undermining the Covid safe requirements of the workplace. Has her immediate manager/supervisor spoken to her about it.? Is she aware? There must be a disciplinary procedure in place if she continues to ignore health and safety like this.

Disciplinary procedures? Why don’t you recommend a long prison sentence after she has been sacked that is. For goodness sake, this woman has been accused of something so petty without any proof, I would hate to work with the OP. What a Nasty person Frankie51 to describe this woman as dangerous. As a qualified Health and Safety Adviser I could tell you what a dangerous breach of health and safety is and it is not failing to wash your hands. This nasty virus is certainly bringing out the nasty small minded idiotic scaremongering members of society.

dr bharat pankhania said no need to by expensive wipes or sprays. he says fill a trigger spray bottle with diluted washing -up liquid and spray on any surfaces people may touch, work surfaces etc. wipe off with soft paper. and dispose.
it doesn't really matter about anti-bac versus anti viral. if it's on surfaces it will be captured, lifted and disposed of. also alcohol content breaks down virus.
is your soap anti-viral.
HIV is totally different. it is a blood-borne disease largely. covid is air-borne, much more infectious.
re OP, someone who does not wash hands is possibly endangering others, from all surfaces touched.

Interesting message on here. Covid is a virus so are antibacterial wipes/hand sanitisers useless? I use bleach but not sure if this would work on viruses. Any info appreciated.

Sorry to hear you’ve been ill, Mamma66 but stressing about this will not help your mental health. What would you have done before COVID-19?
You can really deal with it 3 ways.
1. Report her and live with the consequences, which may not be pleasant whether she stays or goes. Other staff may well be grateful that you’ve done the deed but it may change the way they interact with you in case you report them for something they do that has upset you.
2. Tell her straight out that she needs to wash her hands after using the toilet-no need to go into how you know she isn’t.
3. Ignore it, don’t listen for the flushing, lid banging etc.
Whichever you choose, for your sanity and your blood pressure, do it soon!
For your health and peace of mind, carry wipes and sanitiser with you and use them when you are concerned.
One of the side effects of COVID, suspected or actual, is tension and being easily irritated by other’s habits whether or not they are potentially harmful. No wonder ‘mindfulness’ apps are doing so well.

If you believe this colleague is not adhering to the safety measures, you ought first to tell her so. I imagine you have your reasons for believing she doesn't wipe down surfaces and wash her hands, although how you know this is beyond me.

If she denies your accusation, there is really nothing you can do about it. Mentioning it to CEO is pretty useless as he or she can't monitor others behaviour at the toilet.

All you can do is to wipe down the toilet seat and the hand basin before and after you use them yourself.

Or using a different loo?

Seriously, if I felt that my lavatorial behaviour was being monitored like this I would struggle to be able to go - I would have to find a facility on another floor. Maybe this is the explanation?

Mamma66

Chewbacca perhaps if you had been left with Heart Failure at the age of 53 having had suspected Coronavirus you would have given it some consideration. I would not wish what I have gone through on anyone...

Sorry you are being given such snide answers especially given your circumstances. No idea why people leap to all kinds of nasty conclusions when you are trying to protect yourself and others. Most don’t seem to have much of a clue about enclosed areas behind shops. Most are probably using far different facilities. A bit off putting to think of her handling items for sale, the till, counters and handing people change. Hope you manage to resolve the issue without further distress. The last thing you need.

Or letting her hands drip dry

Or even washing her hands!

Just a thought - might she be wasting her hands with her own sanitiser, and squirting surfaces with a self-drying substance of some sort, so not running the tap or using the hand dryer or needing a bin?

Mamma66

For those of you who asked how I knew she wasn’t washing her hands or wiping the surfaces down. Our WC is on the main corridor. The bin is foot operated and noisily bangs shut, typically people wipe surfaces down and dispose of the wipe and then wash the hands and dispose of the paper towels. This results in two noisy bangs.

Perhaps she lifts her foot off the foot pedal in a very controlled manner so that it shuts gently because she doesn't like loud bangs?

Best to involve the CEO Mamma66. Good luck.

As this person is a new volunteer, couldn't the manager just have a friendly word to remind her of policies?

There's always so much to take in when you start a new job and there's nothing worse than having people gossip behind your back and not telling you what you're doing wrong.

Chewbacca perhaps if you had been left with Heart Failure at the age of 53 having had suspected Coronavirus you would have given it some consideration. I would not wish what I have gone through on anyone...

My goodness Mamma66, you've really given this some considerable time and investigation haven't you? Laying a trap with the positioning of the anti bacterial wipes; counting how many clunks the pedal bin makes, listening for the tap running.
You have 2 choices:
1. Make sure that you wipe everything down as you enter and leave the toilet area and wash your hands thoroughly, just as you would when entering any public lavatory.
2. Report your colleague to the CEO, stand back and wait for the atmosphere in the office to become very unpleasant for everyone.