It's just been announced that we have passed 100,000 deaths.

It is tragic but I do wish people would stop holding the Government entirely responsible. There are still people breaking the rules and although we were allowed to ‘bubble’ over Christmas it certainly wasn’t compulsory - we are responsible for our actions

SillyNanny321

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you quite strongly really - they could and should have done better. They have no leadership capacity, and Johnson, amongst others is simply not up to the job.

The NHS is overrun with ICU nurses now having to treat up to 4 people at one time, as a direct result of the dithering in October and November. They have once again failed to protect the vulnerable in care homes, and 'offloaded' the hospital patients last March and April into care homes without testing. Their actions and inactions are indefensible.

They wheel out junior ministers like Jenrick, Coffey and others, and hide behind them when difficult questions are asked. Johnson failed to attend 5 COBRA meetings a year ago, and the state we are in today is attributable to his government's actions and inactions.

You ask if anyone else could have done better. Of course they could, nobody, but nobody could have done as bad or worse. Their entire focus was on Brexit, and the childish games they were playing with the UK economy.

They now trot out second-rate ministers and fly a couple of union jacks, and claim to be doing their best. It is simply not good enough - their only saving grace has been the scientists, laboratory staff, process workers, NHS staff, GP practices and delivery drivers who are delivering these life saving vaccines.

Please note that I am not trying to make a party political point here - just illustrating the effect that the application of different rules has had.

CASES PER MILLION POPULATION

England 57,615
Scotland 33,113
Wales 60259
NI 53724

ROI 38713 (for comparison)

The differences are stark and there maybe other factors at work but surely this illustrates that stricter regulations and more consistency has a significant effect on spread?

Excellent post Franbern - couldn't agree with you more.

It is sad to see so many people willing to leap to the defence of this omnishambles of a "government".

Magsymoo spot on. You summed it up well.

I agree with you Caro57
It’s us, the general public, not the government who are responsible for the high death toll.

We have been told that up to one third of people with the virus were asymptomatic so apart from the tiny minority of people who claim to have never set foot outside all year we could ALL be responsible for unwittingly passing it on without even realising we had it.

Otherwise what was the answer?
A complete lockdown virtually all year?
The government has always had to rely on public compliance hasn’t it? We don’t live in a dictatorship like for instance China and I am sure we are all extremely thankful we don’t.

I am shocked that the care home deaths are so high again. I'm aware that they are being asked to take Covid hospital discharges and also accommodate people with Covid, but that is a recent development. As far as I'm aware they now have plenty of PPE and have reduced the risks from visitors by virtually banning them. All the staff are tests with PCR tests once a week and Lateral Flow twice more - so how is the virus getting in? The care home residents and staff were number one on the list for vaccination but have not been treated as such. Surely it would not take much for the right number of vaccine phials to be taken in by the G.P. who usually attends the residents , even if it does not keep for long. It is totally shocking, and I cannot understand why. I hesitate to think that the staff are behaving irresponsibly as so many of them have shown such extreme dedication throughout all this.

Yes there will always be people who break the rules or think C19 is a hoax - but I still put the blame firmly on this government ( and I voted for them! )
Too late in everything, too many confusing rules, a lot of people didn’t have a clue what they were supposed to be doing. Flights from all over the world allowed in with ridiculous faith put in these people self isolating ( as if )
You can just imagine Boris saying - ‘stay at home, there’s a good chap, & with a fair wind behind us this will all be over before we can say diddly squat’

Yes we are an overcrowded country with a very high number of overweight unhealthy people ( that’s another discussion ) but surely knowing this is more reason to protect us!

To those that ask 'Would any other party have done anything better?' - the answer is that none could have actually done worse!!!

Just note our death figures against other sized countries, just note our rising unemployment level against other similar countries, just note the fall in our economy against other similar countries.

We are the worse, the worse and the worse in all of these.

Caro - of course the government keep trying to blame us- the public - to try to turn us away of knowing that they are totally to blame for these figures. Please do not play their game.

WW010

I’ve a couple of bits to add. Before I do let me say this is incredibly awful and yes I do blame the government. Their cronies have made millions out of peoples suffering. But to the points 1) a family member is an A&E consultant. He told us last night that the 100000 is actually far higher. That’s just the number reported in 28 days. He said 50% of people who had been in ICU recover. But then 60% of those then die at home and those numbers aren’t reported. 2) you may have heard the view espoused by Stanley Johnson. They want a smaller population. They think Britain is overpopulated. This is fascism plain and simple. Kill off the old, weak and poor. Leaves more for the rich. But yet, people vote for them and will vote for them again. I despair. I’m not necessarily left wing. I am anti fascism.

You're right that they're not reported in the daily figures. That's why ONS statistics are higher. They include everyone who's died, not just in hospitals. There's always a lag on ONS figures, which is why we don't know about them straight away. It's also known that many people die after the 28 day cut off from first being tested.

Whatever the true figure is, it's a hell of a lot and I feel for all the people who have lost family members and friends unnecessarily.

Just want to add, that the only partially success that has been is in the roll-out of the first doses of the vaccine. However, note, this has been handled by our NHS - in their usual efficient manner. Just imagine what would happening if it had been handed out to a government crony at enormous cost - and the debacle that would be ensuing.

Of course, The NHS and the GMC seem to disagree with the government idea of long period between first and second doses. This is being done so that government spokesmen can boast of numbers receiving the vaccine -however none of us are properly protected until we receive the second dose. I am concerned as to when this will actually take place for the majority of us.

JenniferEccles

I agree with you Caro57
It’s us, the general public, not the government who are responsible for the high death toll.

We have been told that up to one third of people with the virus were asymptomatic so apart from the tiny minority of people who claim to have never set foot outside all year we could ALL be responsible for unwittingly passing it on without even realising we had it.

Otherwise what was the answer?
A complete lockdown virtually all year?
The government has always had to rely on public compliance hasn’t it? We don’t live in a dictatorship like for instance China and I am sure we are all extremely thankful we don’t.

Simples! Stay at home and act as though you are infected. No excuses!

Franbern

Just want to add, that the only partially success that has been is in the roll-out of the first doses of the vaccine. However, note, this has been handled by our NHS - in their usual efficient manner. Just imagine what would happening if it had been handed out to a government crony at enormous cost - and the debacle that would be ensuing.

Of course, The NHS and the GMC seem to disagree with the government idea of long period between first and second doses. This is being done so that government spokesmen can boast of numbers receiving the vaccine -however none of us are properly protected until we receive the second dose. I am concerned as to when this will actually take place for the majority of us.

So am I! I'm category 5 (65 and over). I'm also category 6 (diabetic and heart problems), but my age trumps my medical condition.

I keep reading about targets for the first four categories and (age 70+ and some occupational and CEV groups), but there's been nothing over the last couple of weeks about the remaining five priority groups.

I've become used to deception by omission. Nobody will commit to anything and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the remaining five groups are pushed on to the back burner - possible to appease the vocal pressure groups who want other people to be vaccinated.

Before I get shouted down . I do understand that each and everyone of these deaths is a personal loss and tragedy for someone. Kept in proportion of a population of 66 million in the UK its not an extremely large number. Previously there has been a greater loss of life in pandemics and wars in this country.

nipsmum

Before I get shouted down . I do understand that each and everyone of these deaths is a personal loss and tragedy for someone. Kept in proportion of a population of 66 million in the UK its not an extremely large number. Previously there has been a greater loss of life in pandemics and wars in this country.

When?

I don’t think you understood my point growstuff
I was talking about how up to a third of cases were in people who had no symptoms and who had absolutely no idea they were infected.

I know how the virus is spread. I know what to do to help not get the virus. I risk assess all that I do. Not for the Government but me , my family and friends. I can’t understand why everyone is not doing this. I locked myself down before there was the first lockdown. My daughter did research on the internet. We saw what was happening in Italy early on. Clearly there are people who are sitting ducks. Those in care homes and Keyworkers but the rest of us should be helping them by doing our own risk assessments. I didnt do eat out to help out. Why don’t people use their own critical thinking? You don’t need to do what the government recommends! I haven’t seen 2 of my children and their families for over a year. Sacrifices have to be made but people are so entitled and you are not telling me what to do. Of course the Government have made mistakes but it’s people giving the virus to people. Rant over because I am going crazy with this Lockdown.

Firstly, we don’t have the highest death rate in Europe! Why do people continue to say that? Belgium actually has that honour. You cannot compare raw data such as the numbers who have died, when every country has a different size of population. The only way countries can be compared properly is to look at the numbers of deaths per 100,000. And this puts us in the unenviable position of being fourth in Europe and is still a horrendous toll on the British population. Belgium has had 178.87 deaths per 100,000, Slovenia 172, Italy 136.15, and Czechia 135.67. And then the UK at 133.93.
This is certainly not a good figure and I believe that it could have been lower if certain actions had been taken earlier. Lockdown should have been lockdown. That is as it was in Italy or France. We should been allowed out of our homes only once a day, with a downloaded pass. Too many places have remained open. Our borders should have been closed and quarantine enforced rigidly. And above all, every lockdown in the UK has been too late, so we are always playing catch up, not prevent.
But I’m fed up to the back teeth of lies being peddled by the media and then repeated ad nauseum by the public. We do not have the worst death rate in Europe, we have a wholly unenviable death rate, but not the worst in Europe.

JenniferEccles

I don’t think you understood my point growstuff
I was talking about how up to a third of cases were in people who had no symptoms and who had absolutely no idea they were infected.

I understood your point perfectly. That's why everybody needs to behave as though they are infected.

This is a tragic story.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-55725812

^Then one Thursday in March she went for a haircut; she asked for the colour to be darkened slightly too, and when he first saw her afterwards Tony told her how much he loved it. Ann mentioned that the hairdresser had been coughing.

Three days later, Ann began coughing too, and soon afterwards so did Tony. But with a fever, she felt worse, and within a few more days she was barely able to stand. She asked Tony to call 999.^

I couldn't give a flying fig where we are in the deaths league table. What I do know is that we have had over 100,000 unnecessary deaths and the government has dithered and dallied its way through all of it, without listening to the advice they've been given and not informing stakeholders, who have been responsible for delivering services. Meanwhile, a handful of people have become very rich.

This is all so sad. If only people had followed the rules way back we might not be in this situation now.

Maybe an earlier lockdown would have been better, but if people just ‘do their own thing’ it is fighting a losing battle,

As this thread has drifted a long way from the poor people who have died I have started another which I hope you find add to your discussion. Here: www.gransnet.com/forums/coronavirus/1290924-Why-our-death-rate-is-one-of-the-highest-in-the-world-Sir-Michael-Marmot-author-of-the-December-2020-report-Build-back-Fairer-and-Professor-Linda-Bauld-were-interviewed-on-this-point-on-Today

I hope that is okay.

If you're fed up with lies maddyone, maybe you should lock up Johnson, Hancock, Williamson and some others because lying is their "modus operandi".

I feel this Government decided on herd immunity right at the beginning and it’s all gone wrong - like genocide