Let us hope that Johnson has finally learned some lessons.

I do get the point about testing Baggs but this was not the only reason why Covid ravaged care homes. It MAY have been ethical for patients to be moved if testing was not available IF Care Homes had been adequately staffed, equipped to deal with, and properly isolate them. Clearly they were not. Ideally of course testing should have taken place, and it was so wrong to say that it had. Care Home staff should also have been prioritised for tests as soon as they became available.

Baggs

MayBee70

Baggs

I presume the people who had covid (but without anyone knowing this) and who were discharged to care homes and then died, had gone into hospital with other health issues (possibly ones that were going to be causes of their deaths anyway, regardless of covid, (the average of death from covid during the early part of the pandemic in UK was higher than the usual average) and caught covid in hospital. I've yet to unferstand how that was fault of the PM, of any PM.

So they were old and going to die anyway so it doesn’t matter? Like my friend who had a fall, went to hospital, was sent to a care home where she caught covid and died. But hey, she was 96 so was going to die at some point.

Where did I say it didn't matter, Maybee?

The fact is that we were told in the early part of the pandemic that the virus was most dangerous for old people and for people with comorbidities. Recognising this fact makes it less easy to blame those in government and this would still be true if the government were of a different political bent.

I can't follow your logic. If the govt knew the elderly were more likely to be seriously ill and die from covid it makes them more to blame for deliberately sending infected people into the homes.

The ‘true’ figure is probably excess deaths, ie the number of people above the average for the last five years. Bearing in mind there was minimal flu circulating, these are people who would in an average year still be alive. Whether elderly or not is irrelevant. www.kingsfund.org.uk/press/press-releases/highest-rates-excess-deaths-in-the-world-ons-deaths-data-2020

Vietnam identifies new hybrid of Indian and Kent Covid-19 variant

Vietnam has uncovered a new Covid-19 variant combining characteristics of the two existing variants first found in India and the UK,” health minister Nguyen Thanh Long said yesterday, describing it as a hybrid of the two known variants.

Vietnam has uncovered a new Covid-19 variant combining characteristics of the two existing variants first found in India and the UK,” health minister Nguyen Thanh Long said yesterday, describing it as a hybrid of the two known variants.

Vietnam did well last year but it appears the speedy replication of this variant is causing numbers to rise. How long will our poor border arrangements keep it out of the UK?

www.cityam.com/vietnam-identifies-new-hybrid-of-indian-and-kent-covid-19-variant/

re my last post

There were reports of outside airborne transmission in Canada a few weeks ago.

MayBee70

There were reports of outside airborne transmission in Canada a few weeks ago.

Have you any details, MayBee? That would be an awful blow if it were happening more than occasionally.

Baggs

Good post Greeneyedgirl, but in fact pandemic was expected, had been for some years, but the NHS did not prepare adequately for it. Neither did government.

I'm not sure that it was the responsibility of the NHS, Baggs.

Wouldn't Public Health England and the Minister for Health have been responsible for ensuring that the recommendations for improvement in the report on operation Cygnus were funded and implemented?

I've found this, dated November 2020, but I'm not convinced that it is telling the truth...

www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-pandemic-preparedness/annex-a-about-exercise-cygnus

In view of this, from May 2020 I suspect I might be right...

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/revealed-the-secret-report-that-gave-ministers-warning-of-care-home-coronavirus-crisis

he hasn't learnt anything. I live in between two boroughs who had increasing Indian variant rates and now we have a very high rate of it. Schools remained open here
He is fucking idiot in my opinion

sorry for swearing
all my neighbours are coughing, I know the people two doors down do actually have covid though

JaneJudge that must be frightening. Take care seems silly but please do look after yourself.

MayBee70

There were reports of outside airborne transmission in Canada a few weeks ago.

I can only find reports of it being airborne which we sort of knew but this is further emphasising it. What it is suggesting is that we will need to rethink indoor spaces. I did start a thread asking what we all saw happening in the decade after Covid which didn't take off but I think it may have been too soon to ask. Having said that I think the design of buildings - particularly public buildings. As I read it those who know about these things see this influencing our lives for decades to come.

Having said that I think the design of buildings - particularly public buildings.

Having said that I think the design of buildings - particularly public buildings will become paramount.

It was from the pharmacist lady from Canada who does a web chat with Dr John every few weeks. Things like central heating systems and air con are going to have to be changed. Toilets, a possible spread of covid that never seem to get a mention may have to be redesigned. Public toilets might need something that automatically closes them off before flushing might be a good idea given that people wouldn’t want to be opening and closing the lids.

Let’s just hope that Vietnam puts us to shame by being able to contain the new variant. At least the latest outbreak in Australia has jolted the people there out of their covid complacency.

MayBee70

It was from the pharmacist lady from Canada who does a web chat with Dr John every few weeks. Things like central heating systems and air con are going to have to be changed. Toilets, a possible spread of covid that never seem to get a mention may have to be redesigned. Public toilets might need something that automatically closes them off before flushing might be a good idea given that people wouldn’t want to be opening and closing the lids.

But you said outdoor airborne infections, MayBee. What does she say about that? (you and Pippa now seem to be talking about indoor infections)

I think I have encountered public toilets that have lids that close before you flush them, but I can't remember where!

I seem to recall a case reported from China where infection was passed on to self isolating people via the toilet waste system.

But incidences of outdoor airborne infection would be very worrying.

Sorry Maizie...I sort of flitted from answering the question about outside airborne infection to pondering out loud about how things would change moving forward. I need to dig out the chat with the pharmacist and listen to it again. There’s so much happening, covid wise that I’m struggling to keep up!

It seems inevitable now that 21 June is not going to happen.

Entirely predictable, given Johnson’s dithering over closing the border to India.

The fault lays entirely with that decision to delay the border closing.

Why isn’t Vietnam now on the red list of countries?

Maybee. I’m not sure what you meant by Australia’s covid complacency ? They have taken swift action from the start ? Any time there are cases lockdown is in place straight away . Vaccination is happening . My son aged 42 has had his.

Maybe she meant that the Australians are not taking the vaccines very much, and a poster who lives in Australia has said the roll out of the vaccine isn’t well organised, on a number of threads Lucca.

Lucca

Maybee. I’m not sure what you meant by Australia’s covid complacency ? They have taken swift action from the start ? Any time there are cases lockdown is in place straight away . Vaccination is happening . My son aged 42 has had his.

I meant covid vaccine complacency. People were wary of the AZ vaccine at first and didn’t feel affected by the virus because of how well the country had handled things. A doctor from Australia does a regular chat on DrJohns blog.

I thought you meant vaccine complacency Maybee. The Australian poster has said that people are vary of the AZ vaccine although she has had it.

The vaccine does seem to be going a lot slower in Australia.

I have been re-reading about the Delta variant (First found in India) and I think that, as the transmissibility is increased this may include outside transmissibility. What I can't find is how much difference this will make. As I see it Alpha (Kent) might land on you and the percentage of it getting into your system is "x". However, if Delta lands the chance of it getting into your system is >Alpha.

Happy to be enlightened as this is only me reading not something I know anything about.

Now they have renamed the variants I have the first lines of the poem I learned when my teachers thought learning a little Greek was a good idea, going round and round in my mind.

This is Greek, and how they spelt her
Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta,

I hope it goes soon!

Apparently Peru have just readjusted their Covid death figures to 180,000, I wonder how many other Countries will reassess their data?