Is it ethical to require a vaccine passport for entry to a club?

It’s unethical to have these places open in the first place. Poor,poor people being led my an incompetent uncaring prime minister who just doesn’t care about the health of his people.

i think clubbers will get used to it and put up with the small inconvenience and imposition

I think it's fair enough. It isn't essential to go to a nightclub, a lot of young people don't, they prefer raves (they're still a thing) which are unregulated mostly.

Entry to any licensed premises is at the landlords discretion - so I don’t see why restrictions can’t apply to a club.

Is it unethical to gain entry to a nightclub by wearing a "good bra" to distract the bouncers?

I was listening to some talk show recently(God knows there are enough of them) and a near-hysterical person was screeching There are 18 year olds in this country who have never been inside a nightclub - as if that is the most terrible thing to contemplate.

Given that early on Sunday morning our PM wasn't going to isolate and by lunchtime he was safely tucked up in isolation I reckon that the chance they actually know what will be happening as far away as September is almost nil.

If Freedom goes as well as predicted in some quarters all the clubbers and non clubbers are likely to be in lockdown again anyway.

GrannyGravy13

Listening to the PM and scientists at the briefing yesterday they implied that vaccine passports could be used in any crowded situation.

Will it be requiring for theatres, concerts and sporting events?

When I went on to my NHS App this morning my vaccine passport had appeared both for domestic use and abroad.

In my opinion this has been planned for some time.

As we are consistently being told that double vaccinated folks can also pass on Covid, are more likely to be asymptomatic I am struggling with the ethics of the whole vaccine passport idea.

But two doubly vaccinated people in a club still reduce the risk of infection/transmission greatly given that they’re both @50% less likely to catch the virus and it will reduce transmission by @50%. We’ve got to do something to allow people to have a more normal life and I don’t see what the alternative is. People arguing against vaccine passports saying it takes away people freedom are missing the point that it’s giving them back their freedom.

MayBee70 I did not say I was against vaccine passports for Night Clubs. I am concerned that it could trickle down from Night Clubs and end up with all of us having to prove our vaccination status to go into our local grocers…

Where would that leave folks who are unable to have the vaccine for whatever reason? Would our vaccine passports be removed if we forget or late having a booster?

The U.K. could end up being divided into the vaccinated and the unvaccinated, this pandemic could result in us living in what could be described as some weird dystopian society

MayBee70

GrannyGravy13

Listening to the PM and scientists at the briefing yesterday they implied that vaccine passports could be used in any crowded situation.

Will it be requiring for theatres, concerts and sporting events?

When I went on to my NHS App this morning my vaccine passport had appeared both for domestic use and abroad.

In my opinion this has been planned for some time.

As we are consistently being told that double vaccinated folks can also pass on Covid, are more likely to be asymptomatic I am struggling with the ethics of the whole vaccine passport idea.

But two doubly vaccinated people in a club still reduce the risk of infection/transmission greatly given that they’re both @50% less likely to catch the virus and it will reduce transmission by @50%. We’ve got to do something to allow people to have a more normal life and I don’t see what the alternative is. People arguing against vaccine passports saying it takes away people freedom are missing the point that it’s giving them back their freedom.

Can you please tell us the source of your 50% statistics Maybee70. I've been trying to find out about these figures.
Thank you

"Poor, poor people being led by an incompetent uncaring prime minister who just doesn't care about the health of his people" we're talking about people who've chosen not to be vaccinated potentially being refused access to night clubs and other venues.

Surely if people are able to decide whether or not to be vaccinated, they can't be being led by the pm!

MoorlandMooner

MayBee70

GrannyGravy13

Listening to the PM and scientists at the briefing yesterday they implied that vaccine passports could be used in any crowded situation.

Will it be requiring for theatres, concerts and sporting events?

When I went on to my NHS App this morning my vaccine passport had appeared both for domestic use and abroad.

In my opinion this has been planned for some time.

As we are consistently being told that double vaccinated folks can also pass on Covid, are more likely to be asymptomatic I am struggling with the ethics of the whole vaccine passport idea.

But two doubly vaccinated people in a club still reduce the risk of infection/transmission greatly given that they’re both @50% less likely to catch the virus and it will reduce transmission by @50%. We’ve got to do something to allow people to have a more normal life and I don’t see what the alternative is. People arguing against vaccine passports saying it takes away people freedom are missing the point that it’s giving them back their freedom.

Can you please tell us the source of your 50% statistics Maybee70. I've been trying to find out about these figures.
Thank you

I did put @ because I wasn’t sure. I’m just going by the things I hear on Dr Johns blogs which I listen to every day. I’ll try to find the one I heard it on. Things are happening so fast pandemic wise I’m struggling to keep on top of it. It might actually have been mentioned by one of the government advisors.

People arguing against passports saying it takes away peoples freedom are missing the point that it’s giving them back their freedom.

I totally agree with this. I welcomed my vaccination as I felt it gave me a certain freedom. Freedom of worry to start with, as I now go into a shop or restaurant with less fear than before. And I can relax and enjoy the meals out, and holidays away (just got back from a week in Somerset.)
Anyway back to ethics. The young women I saw interviewed today said she thinks it’s unethical to oblige people to show a vaccination passport in order to enter a club, because it’s taking her/their freedom of choice away, and forcing vaccination on to her/them. I disagree. I think it’s perfectly ethical to expect people to be vaccinated to enter clubs, or any other large gathering such as a theatre. It’s called responsibility, not just for yourself, but also towards others. No one man is an island unto himself.

gavi..org I just read something on this site that showed similar statistics. I can’t do links on my iPad. If I was on my computer I could.

Strange that the people vocalising about vaccine passports taking their freedom away are strangely silent about the government taking away their right to peacefully protest.

I am fine with with people who choose not to be vaccinated being denied participation in public spaces. Proof of vaccine, or proof of medically necessary exemption, or stay at home.

Many countries require exactly this proof for children to attend school. I think we could fairly require it for adults to attend Sainsburys. The plague bearers can order their shopping in, or get a clue and get vaccinated like the rest of us.

Someone else’s right to not be vaccinated cannot trump my right to not be coughed over and infected when I’m trying to buy a loaf.

I do wonder the logistics of it all. Boosters are currently planned for the over 50s, and possibly an annual thing (no one can know for certain yet). So when that’s due, will the ‘vaccine passports’ of those eligible expire? We will not longer be classed as fully protected, and so potentially a risk to others. Will it be something that renews each year (or whenever they deem boosters necessary)? If that’s the case how will the NHS ensure that they have enough vaccine and appointments to ensure that those that want them don’t lose their ‘freedoms’. Our NHS trust regularly struggles to deliver the flu vaccine to everyone. It was only a couple of years ago that it took me 11 weeks from being told I was eligible, to actually being able to have it from my doctor. Now obviously I have no desire to go to a nightclub, but I would be pretty irritated (assuming the scheme was extended as appears to be the case in other countries) if I was unable to go for a coffee or attend the theatre due to their not being a vaccine ready for me.

I also worry about it providing further fuel to fire of staunch anti-vaxxers. Whilst technically not forced vaccines, it certainly puts pressure on people to have it (I don’t necessarily think that’s the worst thing). Are the anti-vaxxers, going to be able to use it to influence vulnerable people.

It's quite simple, isn't it? If the vaccine passport is a QR code, those who are medically unable to have the passport can also get a QR code from the NHS giving their status as unvaccinated for medical reasons.

If you're not having the vaccine because you're an anti vaxxer, that's your choice but the rest of us should haven't to suffer because of it.

Our local pub has four entrances/exits would they be required to have a doorman/woman on each to check vaccine passports?

I am not trying to be awkward by the way just wondering how it could/would be implemented.

If it was only checked at the bar, than as long as the person ordering drinks had an up to date passport how would their friends sitting down be checked, or wouldn’t they?

So what happened if you don’t have a smart phone? I don’t trust this government with my data and I rarely take my phone out with me. Personally I don’t think expecting everyone to have a smart phone is realistic. So what of those?

I don’t have a smart phone. I was going to buy one but then the pandemic started and I didn’t want to go to a shop to buy one. And if I bought one in the internet wouldn’t know how to set it up. I don’t go anywhere anyway but may have to in the future.

You have a paper passport and a photocard driving licence already. A physical vaccine ID card would not be difficult to implement.

Yes, places can have a bouncer on every door, or they can lock the ones they don’t want to bounce at. This was already done to control numbers coming in and out of shops during Covid lockdown. No entry without ID is common at many licensed premises already.

This is all completely implementable in a practical sense. The question is whether the government wishes to do so or not.

MayBee70

Strange that the people vocalising about vaccine passports taking their freedom away are strangely silent about the government taking away their right to peacefully protest.

I don’t know what she thinks about the right to peacefully protest Maytree as she only talked about vaccination. I started this thread and I reported what she thinks, not what I think. I agree with vaccination passports. I realise there may be logistical difficulties, but it cannot be beyond the wit of man/woman to sort them out.

ayse

So what happened if you don’t have a smart phone? I don’t trust this government with my data and I rarely take my phone out with me. Personally I don’t think expecting everyone to have a smart phone is realistic. So what of those?

You can have a QR code printed out on a piece of paper. As long as you have ID with the same details on it, it would be fine.

I presume the vaccine passport is to make sure that everyone who is allowed into the venue is vaccinated and so is less of a risk to everyone else.

I also assume that people who are medically exempt will be allowed in anyway. And so they might be infectious and infect other people who are there.

So what is the reasoning behind not allowing in people who are just not vaccinated for other reasons? Punishment?

Is this forever? Will we always have to show proof of vaccination, forever?

So what is the reasoning behind not allowing in people who are just not vaccinated for other reasons? Punishment?

Of course not. To reduce risk.

There will always be a proportion of society that are unvaccinated. The young for example, and the medically unable.