Your idea of stable??

Just an observation although many including me are waiting patiently for their booster vaccination I do get the feeling people don’t seem to trust the vaccine they have had to do it’s job
Obviously people can still catch it but from my experience those who do have mild symptoms
We have the flu jab and trust that but no so the Covid vaccination We don’t stay away from visiting or eating out in case we catch. flu which is very unpleasant

We have the flu jab and trust that but no so the Covid vaccination We don’t stay away from visiting or eating out in case we catch. flu which is very unpleasant

In all but a tiny percentage of cases flu has no after effects. Covid does. It attacks the internal organs and the brain. Its after affects can be long term debilitating and even life altering.

There is no comparison with flu at all

growstuff

Indeed death does always end life, but there's no reason to add another cause and to hasten the end of life.

If it's OK with you AJKW, I'd rather hang on for a few more years and I'd rather not be breathed on by some infected person. I'd also like to lead a relatively normal life.

I'm right there with you, growstuff

MaizieD

^We have the flu jab and trust that but no so the Covid vaccination We don’t stay away from visiting or eating out in case we catch. flu which is very unpleasant^

In all but a tiny percentage of cases flu has no after effects. Covid does. It attacks the internal organs and the brain. Its after affects can be long term debilitating and even life altering.

There is no comparison with flu *at all*

But surely the vaccination is to stop us being seriously effected
I didn’t compare flu with Covid I compared the trust in the vaccine

Hopefully the Covid vaccination will stop us from becoming seriously unwell if we’re unfortunate enough to be infected. My friend and her husband have just had Covid, they’re still isolating, but because they were double vaccinated they weren’t seriously poorly and are recovering quicker than they might have done. However there are many double vaccinated patients in hospital I believe, so where does that leave us?

maddyone

Hopefully the Covid vaccination will stop us from becoming seriously unwell if we’re unfortunate enough to be infected. My friend and her husband have just had Covid, they’re still isolating, but because they were double vaccinated they weren’t seriously poorly and are recovering quicker than they might have done. However there are many double vaccinated patients in hospital I believe, so where does that leave us?

I have friends that have been infected once vaccinated and like yours maddyone they weren’t particularly ill
There are people in hospital and unfortunately this seems to be prevalent in the older age groups according to the ONS especially the over 85s who may need more medical care than the young
I suppose I thought about it when discussing how to encourage people to get vaccinated and it didn’t seem a very good advert for vaccination if it didn’t change people’s perception of getting Covid

It’s my opinion that life should be made uncomfortable for vaccination refusers. To do this a vaccine passport would need to be introduced. If people found they couldn’t go into a pub, a restaurant, work, a cinema, a theatre, or a club, I think it would effectively remove a lot of people’s objections.
When we are vaccinated, we’re not just protecting ourselves, we are protecting one another. We are responsible and unselfish. We are society minded. We care about ourselves and our families and friends. We care about those we meet in shops, theatres, and other social places. Those who do not get vaccinated (unless a medical reason) do not care about anyone. They are arrogant and selfish.

I don't agree with this at all maddyone. I think everybody should be vaccinated, and as quickly as possible, but we can't force medical treatment on anybody, and we can't make their lives uncomfortable if they have different views than ours. Enforcing a passport before someone can go to work, won't change their views, it'll make them think they live in a Police State. Which it very nearly would be, in actual fact.

People who are not vaccinated are not terrorists out to make us all ill. Standing next to an unvaccinated person doesn't mean you get COVID, I'm not even sure it means you have a statistically significant increase in the risk of getting Covid. IMO, they are misguided, they are wrong, but we can't go around making people's lives a misery because they have different opinions to ourselves. We don't enforce medical treatment on anybody in this country.

The vaccine uptake in this country has been unprecedented, we should focus on the fact that there are more than adequate numbers of people taking up the vaccination to make the program effective.

I think you make extremely valid points Alegrias. You’re right, we don’t live in a police state. The problem for me is that having had Covid badly once, I’m extremely anxious about getting it again, even though theoretically I wouldn’t be as ill a second time, having now had the vaccinations and having had Covid itself.
I do agree with vaccine passports though, even if their use was more limited than I suggested in my above post. France and Holland have them and we’re a similar society to those countries. I was very surprised today by how few people were wearing a mask as we sailed on the ferry to the Isle of Wight. I do think we live in a me, me, me society unfortunately, where sadly often little thought for other people is shown, but that’s a different discussion.

You have a perspective and experience that few of us share maddyone, and I'm always interested in what you have to say.

Maybe this has been mentioned on here before but it’s worth repeating - the covid deaths reported daily on the BBC news are the number who have died WITH covid, not necessarily WITH it.
That fact is worth remembering, as it throws a different light on the numbers.

In addition as others have said we do a lot more testing in this country than others so obviously our numbers will appear to be higher.

All in all we are doing pretty well here considering the pandemic hasn’t disappeared.

If only we could persuade those stupid misguided millions who are still resisting the vaccine to come forward we would be in an even better position.

I agree Daisymae.

The government and scientists seem to be completely ignoring the infection and death rates.

I find this deeply troubling. Why isn’t it even mentioned anymore except on the nightly news bulletins.

I also agree, we should all still be obliged to wear masks and social distancing brought back.

If and when these rates come down, I might feel more relaxed about covid.

Also, Johnson seems to have forgotten his pledge to get the whole world vaccinated and no end of vaccines look as though they’re going to go out of date. I think it was Gordon Brown that was talking about this the other day.

Thank you Alegrias for your kind comment. You already know that I like reading your posts about Covid because you were a scientist and know about statistics, unlike me. I do like to read the optimistic posts such as that which JenniferEccles has just posted, I find them reassuring.
Maybee you could be right, there doesn’t seem to be any urgency, that we know about anyway, to get the world vaccinated from Boris Johnson or other world leaders. I know we have donated a large number of vaccines, and so has America, but we need to give more, and quickly if we want to control the spread of this virus.

The only way to reduce the enormous daily numbers, is if the public used what common sense they have, if any, and kept their distance from other people and take precautions for everyone's safety

So there!

lightallan, you have a point, but just read through any GN thread and wonder how on earth what you suggest could come about. There isn’t even a consensus on here on what constitutes taking precautions for everyone’s safety.

I keep reading that what Johnson is in fact doing now is once again pursuing herd immunity.

He had better be careful with that as Bolsonaro along with other members of his government are being charged with homicide.

The big risk of the covid cases running at such high numbers is to allow another variant to develop, and this is precisely what has happened. Not one of too much concern.

Let us hope one doesn’t mutate that is vaccine immune or pretty nasty.

It is a risk Johnson seems to be prepared to run for what seems to be eventual herd immunity.

The UK has accounted for about 3% of Covid cases worldwide. Chances are, if there's a VoC, it won't have emerged here.

If a variant mutates to become instantly vaccine immune, somebody needs to let Prof Gilbert know, because its never happened before. Ever.

The NHS Confederation have requested that the government urgently implement Plan B. Matthew Taylor Chief Executive of the Confederation said: “We are right on the edge – and it is the middle of October. It would require an incredible amount of luck for us not to find ourselves in the midst of a profound crisis over the next three months'. I'm going to assume that he knows what he's talking about. Meanwhile the government sail on saying 'everything's under control'. This government loves a gamble. Driving me to distraction, no action will be taken until we are in a crisis, or more of a crisis, instead of planning, managing and really trying to take some sort of lead.

It has crossed my mind too about the herd immunity. We’ll never know though because after the last debacle over herd immunity I don’t think we’ll ever be told. I’m not a scientist let alone a virologist but we haven’t got herd immunity with flu so is it even possible to get herd immunity with Covid. Like flu I assume it’ll simply mutate. I understand that viruses gradually mutate to be less dangerous, but nonetheless flu still kills many people every year. Plus Covid is a virus that is, as understand it, different, or novel, and we don’t really know how it will behave. Thank God for Professor Gilbert and all the other dedicated scientists working on the vaccines.

I agree with you Daisymae. I feel as though we are walking headlong into a storm. People are behaving as though there is no Covid anymore.

Daisymae

The NHS Confederation have requested that the government urgently implement Plan B. Matthew Taylor Chief Executive of the Confederation said: “We are right on the edge – and it is the middle of October. It would require an incredible amount of luck for us not to find ourselves in the midst of a profound crisis over the next three months'. I'm going to assume that he knows what he's talking about. Meanwhile the government sail on saying 'everything's under control'. This government loves a gamble. Driving me to distraction, no action will be taken until we are in a crisis, or more of a crisis, instead of planning, managing and really trying to take some sort of lead.

Absolutely. I just heard on the radio some politician ..actually I think it was the Business Secretary saying we may have to go back to mask wearing for example…..but not yet. Why ?? Wait until disaster strikes first just like last time ?
Infuriating.

…..go back to mask wearing for example…….but not yet. Why?

Why indeed? I’d love to know the rationale behind the government’s current thinking.

We’re still wearing masks in public places in Wales, but we are now the part of the UK with the highest infection rate, after being behind the curve all summer. Many of our current measures are England’s plan B.

So, if we are going to reduce infection rates the measures will potentially need to be more stringent. The difficulty for the other nations is that decisions about furlough are made by the UK Government, so there’s only so far our Government here can go. I can see more measures, short of lockdown, being introduced quite soon.

Even now the government side of the House of Commons is, in general, not wearing masks whereas, on the opposition benches, they are. Should the government not set an example. What sort of message is this giving the rest of the country? Or are they just being led by the Covid Recovery Group? (which, like the ERG is pretty much the opposite of what it pertains to be).