Covid vaccine harm?

www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicestershire-mp-calls-government-halt-7930913

Whenever I hear 'Big Pharma' I think about conspiracy theories from the US - converted into our culture. Still, I'm aware of the influence of commercial interests - and the possibility that vaccines may, indeed, have harmed a few people.

I'm just so grateful, though, that we all had access to them, grateful for the countless lives and suffering they saved. It's not likely that they were perfect for everyone - but can you imagine the scenario without them?

As far as I know, Andrew Bridgen has absolutely no expertise in vaccines.

Who does he think would fund and be responsible for research, if not the big pharmaceutical companies?

From the Leicestershire Live article:

"Full Fact, an independent fact-checking charity, said Mr Bridgen's claims about the mRNA vaccine and pregnant women were incorrect. Shadow health minister Andrew Gwynne also said: "This isn’t the first time that we've seen anti-vaccine misinformation parroted by Tory backbenchers. Anyone using their platform as an elected representative to spread these kind of baseless conspiracy theories should be ashamed of themselves.

"Vaccine hesitancy costs lives. Covid vaccines are safe and effective, and politicians should be doing everything they can to encourage uptake. Mr Bridgen needs to apologise and correct the record. And Rishi Sunak should get a grip of the conspiracy theorists in the Conservative Party."

This is a link to the FullFact check:

fullfact.org/health/Andrew-Bridgen-Covid-19-vaccines/

Thank you growstuff

growstuff I wasn’t going to even bother with this post but thanks for some evidence to balance.

I just read the Daily Express article. I won't repeat what he was alleging. What a dangerous man he is, how is he an MP?

"Covid vaccines are safe and effective"

Are they really? So why has a friend of mine gone from being an active 60 something to needing 24 hour care after having a severe reaction to covid vaccine?

Such reactions are undoubtedly rare, but to suggest they do not happen at all is misleading and dangerous.

No one has said they never occur, but that they are rare and it is a risk worth taking because of the many lives they have saved.

My husband and I HAVE HAD OUR VAC, but I wouldn't encourage my AC to do so now.

I put it in caps so people wont come to the wrong conclusion that I am anti vacc.

Actually I don't like that label, as people who have no problems with other vaccines, but don't want to have this one, don't seem to be anti vaccines at all, to me.

Why is the gov. encouraging parents to vaccinate babies?
They aren't and never were at risk.

Nowadays the strain is very weak.

Dr Aseem Malhotra Cardiologist has a very compelling argument for young people being at risk from this vaccine.

Thank you Daisymae for raising this topic. Many wouldn't, for fear of being ridiculed and shut down.

The more we know the more autonomy we have.

M0nica

No one has said they never occur, but that they are rare and it is a risk worth taking because of the many lives they have saved.

But who is to decide if it is a risk worth taking?

Alot of the narrative around vaccines recently has put pressure on people to have the vaccine regardless of whether they know about or are cautious about possible side effects.

This is particularly true of children who cannot decide for themselves and are at very small risk from the actual disease.

Their low risk from covid makes the risk from the vaccine much higher on balance and yet we still go ahead with it.

In my view this is wrong and part of what others have called the "broken guardianship" of our children

Namsnanny

My husband and I HAVE HAD OUR VAC, but I wouldn't encourage my AC to do so now.

I put it in caps so people wont come to the wrong conclusion that I am anti vacc.

Actually I don't like that label, as people who have no problems with other vaccines, but don't want to have this one, don't seem to be anti vaccines at all, to me.

Why is the gov. encouraging parents to vaccinate babies?
They aren't and never were at risk.

Nowadays the strain is very weak.

Dr Aseem Malhotra Cardiologist has a very compelling argument for young people being at risk from this vaccine.

Thank you Daisymae for raising this topic. Many wouldn't, for fear of being ridiculed and shut down.

The more we know the more autonomy we have.

That’s the point of the full fact that growstuff posted Namsnammy, to provide unbiased, accurate information.

An example of something claimed that isn’t a fact is your question

‘Why is the gov.encouraging parents to vaccinate babies?’

That isn’t happening. The vaccine has been approved for use in that age group, which is a different thing altogether. Here is the statement, which makes it clear what the position actually is.
www.gov.uk/government/news/pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine-authorised-for-use-in-infants-and-children-aged-6-months-to-4-years

Thank you Growstuff. You can really only ignore the mindless conspiracy theorists as they have a tendency to imply those who challenge them are "obviously" implicated. I am sure the dreadful Bridgen is now well trained enough to do just that.

As some are not inclined to click on links I thought it worth posting the Full Fact report.

During Prime Minister’s Questions today, Conservative MP Andrew Bridgen made a series of claims about the Covid-19 vaccines, including that there had been “more reported deaths and adverse reactions following mRNA vaccination in 18 months” than for all other vaccines administered “worldwide” over the past 50 years, and that the Covid-19 mRNA vaccines “are not recommended for pregnant women or those who are breastfeeding”.

These comments are misleading. We’ve previously written about other comments made by Mr Bridgen on the Covid-19 vaccines.

The Moderna and Pfizer Covid-19 vaccines use mRNA technology. We’ve written more about how these vaccines work.

If you do click through you will be able to click and go to further work done by Full Fact.

I don't hold out a great deal of hope that this government will ever hold anyone to the truth but Bridgen should be out unless he withdraws these misleading claims.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aseem_Malhotra

A "danger to public health".

I'm not an anti vaxxer, but it's time that a benefit analysis was carried out. We are not in the same situation as 2020. I also have a friend who has never fully recovered from the booster. The population needs to be fully aware of the risks involved to enable individuals and parents to make a considered decision.

my point also Daisymae. More information will be available as time passes.

Daisymae

I'm not an anti vaxxer, but it's time that a benefit analysis was carried out. We are not in the same situation as 2020. I also have a friend who has never fully recovered from the booster. The population needs to be fully aware of the risks involved to enable individuals and parents to make a considered decision.

I assume you mean a scientific risk/benefit analysis rather than a cost/benefit analysis, Daisymae.

I'm sure you would agree that, for a theory to be scientific, it must be possible to prove or disprove it.

What would you expect to see, in peer-reviewed risk analysis, that would show the scientists' claims are false?

What would you expect to see in a peer-reviewed risk analysis that would show that Andrew Bridgen's claims are false?

I can only say that 4 people I knew died of Covid before the vaccine was available but I don.t know anyone who has had an adverse reaction to any of the vaccines.

Adverse reactions include having a sore arm for a day or so, which is fairly normal for many injections.

I do know someone ( a male in their 40s) who had a very bad reaction to the vaccine and ended up in intensive care in hospital but I also know many who had no reaction at all or just minor effects. Nearly all vaccines affect some people but I see that the benefits far outweigh the risks. The male has fully recovered and interesting enough his identical twin brother didn’t have a reaction. Perhaps that particular batch he had had something wrong with it, who knows ?

I presume people who are worried about clicking on links, do not click on sites that a google or any other search engine throws up when they search for information. Why did they ever risk clicking on GN before they joined?

GrannyRose15:

'Alot of the narrative around vaccines recently has put pressure on people to have the vaccine regardless of whether they know about or are cautious about possible side effects.'

There are two aspects to this, first, the risk/benefit to an individual child - and second, the risk/benefit to everyone else, including the vulnerable.

It's nothing new, as the jab against German Measles, for instance, has always been for the second reason - to protect unborn babies.

We are all vaccinated in my family. I have always taken the advice of our GP - as I recognise her superior knowledge of the risks and benefits.

I do have a problem with ignorant people who somehow decide that they 'know better' than the accepted medical advice. Based on what exactly?

When my sons were small, the GP advised against the whooping cough vaccine (due to severe allergies and epilepsy in the family). The risk outweighed the benefit at the time.

However, a few years later, we were advised that my daughters should have the vaccine. Why? - because there were so many unvaccinated children, by then, that the benefit now outweighed the risk.

The vaccine was 'unpopular' with the public, for no logical reason - so we were worried sick for a time, just hoping they'd be ok with the jabs - and, thankfully, they were.

Thanks a lot to all the stupid, ignorant and selfish folk out there!

I wonder if we cast our minds back to the beginning of the pandemic when there was widespread fear and no vaccine, then fast forward to the present day and how different it would be now, with millions dead and debilitated if no vaccine developed.
I guess we’d be begging for a vaccine, side effects or not.

You can’t take a simple pain killer without risk of some side effect, but modern medicine and vaccines have changed the way we live our lives, thank goodness.

Those who refuse vaccines without good reason are selfishly benefitting from the herd immunity of the vaccinated.

I must admit I’ve had a previously healthy 50 friend die after eight weeks of covid so I might be more inclined to vaccinate. Well I would anyway, where would we be without big Pharma? Back in the olden times where a leaf or oil was the only remedy. My daughter recently had a very serious infection from a small one in her finger. It took four days to get it sorted by which time it was climbing up her arm and was black in the finger. Thank goodness for big Pharma for providing the antibiotics and pain relief she needed. Yah hoo sucks to the NHS who nearly killed her with their negligence. This country and many others has spent a fortune on this protective vaccine whilst not providing basic health care for many. There are bigger issues to be concerned about than whether pharmaceuticals get paid for developing and manufacturing medicines. I still support the NHS strikers despite my disgust at them for their recent treatment of my daughter. I know that’s down to government and not them.