John Cleese and Andrew Graham Dixon

Galaxy

He most likely apologised out of fear.
I was at a university open day recently. The head of department got his words tangled up and accidentally used an offensive word. It was obviously an error. He was absolutely mortified and well theres no other way to put it terrified. It was horrendous to witness.

Sadly, I can well believe it, Galaxy. It's really worrying that things have come to this in what was for so long a country which prided itself on freedom of speech.

I am also worried about what we will lose in the backlash that I can't help but hope will come soon. Will there a be a return to the genuinely offensive speech of the 70s and before, when racist, sexist and homophobic language was mainstream? I fear that the baby (a move towards more considerate speech and an understanding that words matter) will be thrown out with the bathwater of knee-jerk, reactionary responses to trends in autocratic ways of thinking.

I'm

Are you saying that no-one should be allowed to mock Hitler anywhere, even in a living room?

Why should Hitler's reputation be ignored? Why should his image be protected?

Sorry, the quote facility did not work.
My questions were to Violetsky

BlueBelle

I ve never heard of Andrew Graham Davis so can’t comment on him but I cannot abide John Cleese I think he’s a nasty piece of work
What has impersonating Hitler got to do with a talk on art even if they were talking about his art why would you impersonating him apart from a cheap laugh !!!

You might know Andrew Graham Dixon from the programmes that he did with Giorgio Locatelli. They travelled around Italy looking at, architecture and talking about food, with Locatelli cooking.

I found his performance offensive

I wouldn't use those words personally in a quote, thats just the truth.

I have only defended others right to be offended

I have only defended others right to host people

I haven't suggested that historical words have no place, especially those that have taught society important lessons

It was a terrible impression...

I do wonder if he had simply quoted rather than parodied if the result might have hit differently to those watching.

But not sure what else to say really

I quite like some of the younger generation and their attempts to be more inclusive and i dont think that makes them "delicate flowers", conviction is strength and quite a few of us fought for what mattered to us at that age, some of us are still fighting on some fronts.

Genuinely got nothing else

The deciders. I like that.

Me too. I'd hope to be more like Guy Montag in Fahrenheit 451. It's alarming that, as far back as 1953, Ray Bradbury could see a future where literature, artwork and verbal discourse that was considered to be offensive must be cancelled, outlawed and burnt.

delicate flowers" of the younger geneeation (sic) who are also always purlt (sic) drinking, littering and generally being offensive in parks accordng to gransnet.. Massive generalisation there; particularly as most GNetters have grandchildren/great grandchildren and know that to be a untrue. Again, this is the problem with a lack of critical thinking.........

Callistemon21

I'm

Are you saying that no-one should be allowed to mock Hitler anywhere, even in a living room?

Why should Hitler's reputation be ignored? Why should his image be protected?

Wow...

I cannot believe you are asking me this.

This discussion is no longer for me.

I don't think you are fully understanding what is being said here VioletSky.

I'm sorry, VioletSky but I cannot follow your reasoning.

I don't think I'm alone on this thread to think that .^Humour is one of the most effective ways of challenging dangerous ideologies^

If it causes discomfort that is a good thing.

I found AGD's speech worrying. I see no harm in parodying Hitler if that is what you are doing. "Springtime for Hitler 'is something that really does it well, I don't think AGD does it well. I think he mixes a real and genuine subject with something he thought would get him a laugh. He carried it too far for too long. I'm not sure that any reference to the holocaust should be included in a debate on taste. I think it demeans it. I can understand that students who lost family in the holocaust would find his remarks unacceptable.

No, Callistemon. You are not alone.

There are so many contradictions in VS's posts that I am unable to follow it either.

Of course humour is an effective way of challenging dangerous thinking (or just behaviour that may be offensive). Satire is the very basis of shows like HIGNFY. If The Deciders say that we shouldn't have to listen to offensive material, should that be no platformed, too?

Mock The Week? Black Mirror?

What about films such as The Producers, or The Great Dictator? They mocked Hitler - should they be cancelled? Where does it stop?

I think it's also worth remembering that when speech is controlled it is the oppressed in society who are most likely to suffer from the control of speech. When groups such as those fighting for gay rights were campaigning many saw their speech as 'offensive'.

Sorry - cross posted, Glorianny.

Glorianny

I found AGD's speech worrying. I see no harm in parodying Hitler if that is what you are doing. "Springtime for Hitler 'is something that really does it well, I don't think AGD does it well. I think he mixes a real and genuine subject with something he thought would get him a laugh. He carried it too far for too long. I'm not sure that any reference to the holocaust should be included in a debate on taste. I think it demeans it. I can understand that students who lost family in the holocaust would find his remarks unacceptable.

Thank you, I wish I had just waited for this comment, which expresses things so much better.

I can't see that saying Jews, homosexuals, gay and the mentally ill were massacred because they liked modern art is anything but perpetuating stereotypes. Of course some Jews were involved in the modern art movement but using a doubtful premise to base an argument about what is bad and good taste and referring to the holocaust is not using humour. In fact using Hitler is completely unjustified in such a context. I don't know if AGD thought he was being clever and/or funny but sadly he is neither.

Just returning to this thread as I’ve been ff GN this afternoon.

Ooh you really don’t like me do you Violet Sky?

I don't agree Glorianny. I seem to be watching something else to some other people on here.

There was no reference to the Holocaust. AGD spoke in a German accent and used the word ne***. Count the letters, its not the n-word you might think it is. The word he used for Jews was...Jews ?? He didn't do it for a laugh, he did it as an exposition of the awful things Hitler said.

I'm all for calling out hate speech, but this isn't it.

Blossoming

Just returning to this thread as I’ve been ff GN this afternoon.

Ooh you really don’t like me do you Violet Sky?

I dont know what you mean?

No feelings either way

Not sure if we have even spoken before

volver

I don't agree Glorianny. I seem to be watching something else to some other people on here.

There was no reference to the Holocaust. AGD spoke in a German accent and used the word ne***. Count the letters, its not the n-word you might think it is. The word he used for Jews was...Jews ?? He didn't do it for a laugh, he did it as an exposition of the awful things Hitler said.

I'm all for calling out hate speech, but this isn't it.

volver do you need to say the word "holocaust"? If you mention the deaths of Jews, homosexuals, the mentally ill and imitate Hitler is there any other thing he could be referring to?

I heard the word "negro" as well but it is a term considered offensive by some en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro

If you choose to try and make humour out of a human tragedy which still has relevance for people you should damn sure you do it well and don't offend.

Who judges that then glorianny? You cant explore difficult ideas without offending. It's not possible.

If you mention the deaths of Jews, homosexuals, the mentally ill

But he didn't . Is nobody to mention ever again the things Hitler did because it makes some people think of the Holocaust and they get upset? If that's the case, don't watch this week's WDYTYA.

It wasn't a joke. He wasn't making a joke. There was no humour, just some silly giggling students, one of whom has said he was very drunk at the time.

The n-word you mention is of course offensive to some. He was imitating Hitler. Which isn't the same as impersonating him for a laugh. ??

All this happened a while ago now and I just looked into it further and I dont think a blacklist actually happened anyway...

I heard the word "negro" as well but it is a term considered offensive by some

Bit tricky if you're Spanish.

just some silly giggling students, one of whom has said he was very drunk at the time there you are then. Some students finding humour in something that was never intended to be humorous, one who was too drunk to know the difference.

Makes the head of the Student Union look rather foolish too doesn't it.

Smileless2012

^just some silly giggling students, one of whom has said he was very drunk at the time^ there you are then. Some students finding humour in something that was never intended to be humorous, one who was too drunk to know the difference.

Makes the head of the Student Union look rather foolish too doesn't it.

Yes, as well as the knee-jerk defenders of their 'right' not to be offended, even when they are too ratted to know what they are offended about, or why.