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Education

Excluded from school

(66 Posts)
Teetime Fri 08-Jun-18 09:50:26

This is none of my business other than being a concerned neighbour. A boy of a family a few houses from us has been excluded from school for the second time this term. The first for a few days and this second episode for what seems to be the last two weeks. I feel enormously sorry for this boy who now seems to be at home all the time although he was brought home a few times in a local authority vehicle. What I have seen and heard is him having massive tantrums absolutely huge. Long periods of shouting at the top of his voice I can hear him through closed doors and windows. I think he is about 12/13. I have looked up exclusions on line. I hate to think of him missing out on school and friendships and he seems so lonely when I se him on his bike at weekends. Is there anything I can do as a neighbour? I don't know the family they seem to keep themselves to themselves. It makes me very sad to see him.

Grandma70s Fri 08-Jun-18 09:58:53

It sounds as if he needs professional help rather than exclusion. It’s true teachers can’t be expected to teach someone who behaves like that, but surely there is some sort of psychiatric help available. It would be interesting to know his background and how the parents cope.

Cherrytree59 Fri 08-Jun-18 10:07:18

Agree professional need to be involved.

What about offering to reach him a bit of golf?
A nice calm activity that has the added benefit of using a little mathssmile

J52 Fri 08-Jun-18 10:22:42

I agree with the comments about professional help, but in the last 10 years SEN education and support has been the subject of huge cuts. Mentors and other in house strategies are luxuries, when money is tight for text books.
In the last LA that I worked for, Educational Psychologists
were assigned to a group of schools so that we had almost an on demand service. Then EP numbers were reduced, they were made redundant and then bought in from consultancies. This resulted in huge costs and long waiting lists.
Assessment for ( what used to be)a Statement of Educational Need had to take place within 6 weeks. Now Statements are no more, replaced by a more complex document. ( in order to delay?? )
I expect this poor boy’s parents and school are at their wits end trying to get the situation resolved.

Fennel Fri 08-Jun-18 10:32:18

J52 - that is disappointing news, but not surprising.
I worked as an EP, retired in 1991, and at that time we were well staffed, with a few special units in the city.
But surely it's up to the school to arrange some kind of provision for this boy - it can't be right to just throw him out on the street, where he's likely to end up joining a gang of similar boys.

trisher Fri 08-Jun-18 10:42:27

You could just try smiling and saying "Hello" to him and his parents when you see them. Sometimes parents are at their wit's end and think everyone will see them as bad people and their son as a criminal. Just knowing you still regard them as friends and neighbours may make them feel better.
On the other hand he may respond in a very negative way. Sometimes children who are excluded are in a very bad place and don't respond well to offers of help. They can be very difficult to reach. I do admire you for caring about him, so many people just regard excluded children as scum.

Nanabilly Fri 08-Jun-18 10:51:30

Keep out of it and MYOB is my advice. You don't know what is all ready in the pipeline or being sought for this child and getting involved could bring you all sorts of trouble in the future..from the boy himself...from the parents..from the authorities.
It's difficult but you may be entirely wrong about who or what is the reason behind the exclusions it could be violence and he could turn on you .
Stay well away.

jenpax Fri 08-Jun-18 10:58:02

I have great sympathy for both the boy and his parents. I expect the parents are keeping themselves to them selves as they already feel ostracised by their child’s exclusions and possibly worry about unpleasant comments.
My own DD’s were difficult as teenagers in different ways, and I know I felt hugely embarrassed and a failure as a mother as everyone else seemed to have perfect families😳
It was only much later that I learned of similar issues with teenagers but just more successful hidden from public view. The DDs have all turned out beautifully despite the rocky teenage years and I hope that this young man may too.
He may have special educational needs or he may need counselling services, either way the school should be helping him to access and support available. I also agree that he is missing a lot of school especially as he will only be in year 8 or 9 and will find it harder to catch up.

OldMeg Fri 08-Jun-18 11:40:14

I agree that you should not actively ‘interfere’ (can’t think of a better word but don’t mean it to sound like that) but I do think that a smile and a ‘hello’ would be nice. If that’s we’ll received then you might add a few more words...?

gillybob Fri 08-Jun-18 11:54:23

A relative of mines son was regularly excluded from school for very good reason. He was eventually thrown out altogether and then a second time from another school . So personally would be friendly Teetime but stay out of it as you don’t know what you could be inviting .

Teetime Fri 08-Jun-18 16:16:28

Thank you all for your thoughts. I do take every opportunity there is to smile at him and say hello and he does respond. I think he is a nice boy but troubled and of course I don't know what's at the bottom of all this nor should I. Its just that when I see what happened the other day - he was hammering at his bedroom window and shouting 'don't leave me' to his Mum who looked as though she was going to work my heart breaks for him. Perhaps its best then to be willing to offer help if it looks welcome but MMOB! So sad for him. sad

BlueBelle Fri 08-Jun-18 16:34:16

Tee time he’s probably not a bad lad he may be going through a horrendous time and unfortunately some kids anxiety even panic comes out in huge aggression They are sometimes cross at their own behaviour but cannot verbalise it rationally as we can
I m in no way knocking teachers but the dreadful critics some kids face on a daily basis is no wonder so man6 young people contemplate suicide eating disorders self harming etc
I don’t think it is interfering to offer some friendship surely that’s the problem in the world everyone leaves it to someone else and everyone turns their back I m not religious but isn’t that what the Good Samaritan was all about
I d engage in conversation if you get the opportunity either with him or the parents
I have a 18 year old live near me who used to have awful tempers that rang around the house agarden, he was thrown out of school, bullied because of his size and now doesn’t leave his room because of panic attacks
Good luck @nd well done for having a heart x

BlueBelle Fri 08-Jun-18 16:43:34

Sorry for all my text mistakes I must proof read more

varian Fri 08-Jun-18 17:27:27

This child obviously needs professional help and it may be that is not as available as it should be but he will not have been excluded from school without very good reason. One of my grandchildren, along with the rest of her classmates in the first year at secondary school, has had her lessons constantly disrupted and been subjected to threats and very nasty behaviour from a child who has now been excluded. However the school had to follow a rigorous number of steps involving other sanctions before this could happen.

Fennel Fri 08-Jun-18 17:41:08

This seems to be the current legal position:
www.gov.uk/school-discipline-exclusions/exclusions
So if it's a permanent exclusion the Local Govt. have the responsibility of providing alternative education.

trisher Fri 08-Jun-18 19:15:19

Except alternative arrangements are few and far between and have suffered hugely because of funding cuts, so now a child may only get a couple of hours contact a eek nd a lot of worksheets.
varian that child may have a lot of problems. Just as his behaviour in the classroom was unacceptable so is your condemnation when you know nothing of the causes.

varian Fri 08-Jun-18 19:21:11

I do not condemn the child, merely report that the behaviour of this child disrupted the education of all the other classmates to the extent that the school had to go through their approved disciplinary procedure, eventually resulting in the exclusion of the child who disrupted lessons.

I hope that this excluded child gets the expert help that is needed.

varian Fri 08-Jun-18 19:34:15

My grandchild is one of four friends who went from the same primary school to the same tutor group in the comprehensive. One of her friends has learning difficulties and so she was targeted by a bully who had come from another primary school.

Her friends stood up for her. The bully came from another primary school where she had a record of bad behavour. The point is that the school had to go through quite strict procedures before this child could be sanctioned.

Doodle Fri 08-Jun-18 20:28:01

Smiling and being pleasant can't harm anyone. I think it is kind that you are concerned and want to help. There are so many reasons why a child might be excluded but I expect whatever the reason upset and unhappiness for the child is probably the outcome.

Sheilasue Sat 09-Jun-18 09:13:45

It could be that he’s being bullied or the bully if he is shouting and arguing.
My gd school has counsellors and they are lovely, she suffers with mental health issues panic attacks and anxiety. She got a lot of help and her counsellor advised us to get an appointment for CAMHS. She would shout and argue but has improved so much. Is now at 6th form college.
It’s a shame you can’t talk to your neighbour it is so sad for these young people they are so unhappy.

LJP1 Sat 09-Jun-18 09:14:28

Smiling is great and he probably needs and seeks adult contact but does not know who to trust. Parents working will limit these opportunities. At this age adults outside the family can often be very helpful but approach slowly. If you can get him to chat - comment on his bike / where he is going / local park facilities ...... not why he is there / off school, - just giving him time may be the most valuable thing you can do. He is probably needing human contact.

The main thing is never to give up on a child, no matter how exasperating the behaviour is, it is usually a cry for attention inappropriately expressed.

Good luck!

lollee Sat 09-Jun-18 09:22:37

I work with children and find if you greet them with a big smile and Hi, how's things, etc they usually respond positively even if suspiciously first time. If you have previously spoken to him and know his name just chat to him outside in full view as you would to an adult. Then you can progress to asking him if he would like to do some sort of activity with you (game, cooking etc) or play on his good nature and say you are finding gardening heavy going, would he like to help? A small amount of pocket money for this maybe, but being sure to clear with parents first, by not or on doorstep. All he may need is a caring adult to show interest, maybe his parents are not very good at parenting and cannot handle him.

lollee Sat 09-Jun-18 09:23:25

Note or doorstep

Jaycee5 Sat 09-Jun-18 09:26:22

Just smiling and being pleasant probably means more than it feels like you are doing. It is hard to do much more but being friendly to the parents without interference would probably help too even if they can't reciprocate.
Not being judgmental already probably puts you above most people they have to deal with.

Jayelld Sat 09-Jun-18 09:44:09

My GS is ASD/ADHD with complex learning difficulties. In September 2017 he started Senior school who assured the LEA and his parents that they could cope. In March this year they announced that he "failed to meet the criteria for secondary school education" This comes after a catalogue of failures by the school in his care and support, (non existant). His Education and Health Care Plan, a legal hard won document, sat gathering dust in an office. None of his teachers knew of its existence!
Following the meeting in March, placing my GS in a specialist school was considered a matter of priority. As of today, 3 months later, we are still waiting, the school is still failing him and his anxiety and stress levels are off the scale.
Like the boy in this post, he has "meltdowns" at home. School which he used to enjoy, is now extremely stressful.
It is highly likely that this boy and his parents are going through a similar experience. As with my daughter, a simple smile, good morning and/or a quick chat is often enough to tell the boy, and his parents, that others are not condemning them and that they are not isolated.
In all honesty, that is all you can do, and is often more than enough unless you are a professional or experienced in the education/special needs field.