School refuser, advice needed!

Personally I believe he is just choosing to be naughty’ simply because he knows his mom isn’t able to do anything about it!

Probably not choosing to be naughty. He may not even know why he is behaving like this.
That is why he needs professional help from CAHMS or similar.

PS you write "moms" this is American English, therefore I guess you live in the US. I hope the US health care system can cope.

Allira

There are a lot of children around his age who seem to have developed school phobia.
He is not naughty, he may not even know why he is behaving this and he needs professional help.

It could be anxiety over a combination of things; Covid lockdowns, moving to a larger school which could be overwhelming, there could be bullying going on which he is not talking about and school is not aware of or, like many schools, is not dealing with adequately. Bullying does not necessarily mean physical bullying or even face to face, it could be via social media and can be insidious.

Fining parents is not the answer. They need help and, from what I have read on here, he needs an urgent referral to CAHMS.
Possibly he chooses his options around now so he need help if he is going to get back into mainstream schooling. Obviously home schooling is not the answer here.

I hope help will be available for him asap, sankev.

I totally agree, though sadly it’s a postcode lottery with CAHMS, or whatever they call themselves now.

Acting swiftly is imperative, please don’t ignore these signs.

I totally agree, though sadly it’s a postcode lottery with CAHMS, or whatever they call themselves now.

Yes, it is.
And yes, the name changes and the way they work changes too.

I would say this boy is 'out of control,' as in his mother cannot control him, not even to the extent of a trip to the doctor. He is fourteen, and seems to have done as he pleases, for whatever reasons, for the last two years. He and she definitely need professional intervention, and soon.
I wondered if this was an American situation, with the reference to college funding.

A clinical psychologist told me this is a problem now. She says the biggest correlation they have found in school refusers is addiction to mobile phones.
They can interact all day with other users of TikTok etc and don’t feel lonely. It is difficult for a mother on her own to monitor a child’s use especially a 14 yr old boy. I feel strongly that iPhones should be banned til chn reach 16.
I realise this could only be part or none of the problem but worth considering.

eazybee

I would say this boy is 'out of control,' as in his mother cannot control him, not even to the extent of a trip to the doctor. He is fourteen, and seems to have done as he pleases, for whatever reasons, for the last two years. He and she definitely need professional intervention, and soon.
I wondered if this was an American situation, with the reference to college funding.

Too young for college, not sure I understand that comment?

BrandyGran

A clinical psychologist told me this is a problem now. She says the biggest correlation they have found in school refusers is addiction to mobile phones.
They can interact all day with other users of TikTok etc and don’t feel lonely. It is difficult for a mother on her own to monitor a child’s use especially a 14 yr old boy. I feel strongly that iPhones should be banned til chn reach 16.
I realise this could only be part or none of the problem but worth considering.

Whilst I, in part, agree, what on earth does one do with all the children who are under 16 now and have phones, I’d say almost every child at Secondary School has a mobile phone if some type? Also how would this be policed?

A much better way is a total ban o phones being used actually within schools, and social media sites being more responsible about what they allow on their sites.

A much better way is a total ban o phones being used actually within schools, and social media sites being more responsible about what they allow on their sites.

Yes, agreed, but how would that help with school refusal?

I wonder how this is going to work in Australia in the long-term. 🤔

Could there be a platform on social media telling chn how to refuse to go to school?

I used to work with these kind of troubled young people. We never used the term school refusers. Using lables like this isn't helpful.
Luckily, my LEA provided home school tuition which, as someone said above, has been cut back except in a few places.
Otherwise, it does mean an eventual CAMHS referral, but like every other service, this had also bene cut back and waiting lists are long and treatments often ineffective.
The mistake OP has made is to withdraw the child from school to give home schooling. The LEA are no longer responsible for the education of this child, and the responsibility has been handed to the parent.
Anyone considering this route needs to be fully prepared for the repercussions.
What advice can I give OP? Sadly very little- this is for the responsible parent to sort difficult though that is to accept.
I'm afraid this is a situation that could take a long time to resolve. Meanwhile as a grandparent try to maintain your normal relationship with your GC and stay away from pressuring him about going to school or learning.
Leave the situation be for a while and let mum sort out what she feels needs to be done.
Again, try not to be too judgemental about her decisions either- your role here is to support them through it as best you can.

keepingquiet

I used to work with these kind of troubled young people. We never used the term school refusers. Using lables like this isn't helpful.
Luckily, my LEA provided home school tuition which, as someone said above, has been cut back except in a few places.
Otherwise, it does mean an eventual CAMHS referral, but like every other service, this had also bene cut back and waiting lists are long and treatments often ineffective.
The mistake OP has made is to withdraw the child from school to give home schooling. The LEA are no longer responsible for the education of this child, and the responsibility has been handed to the parent.
Anyone considering this route needs to be fully prepared for the repercussions.
What advice can I give OP? Sadly very little- this is for the responsible parent to sort difficult though that is to accept.
I'm afraid this is a situation that could take a long time to resolve. Meanwhile as a grandparent try to maintain your normal relationship with your GC and stay away from pressuring him about going to school or learning.
Leave the situation be for a while and let mum sort out what she feels needs to be done.
Again, try not to be too judgemental about her decisions either- your role here is to support them through it as best you can.

Thank you, the voice of reason speaking here.

No one on a discussion site should say that the boy has severe mental health problems or is deeply distressed. I worked as a Headteacher and couldn't have diagnosed such issues at the drop of a hat because we don't know what is driving them. The problem could be just one, or several, Allira and others suggested a few. The boy's behaviour is an emotional response, but I agree with the advice to the grandparent to be supportive and helpful without any pressure. That's what the OP was asking for in her last two sentences.

Allira

^A much better way is a total ban o phones being used actually within schools, and social media sites being more responsible about what they allow on their sites^.

Yes, agreed, but how would that help with school refusal?

I wonder how this is going to work in Australia in the long-term. 🤔

Absolutely no idea, sorry, it was just in answer to another comment around teenagers use of mobile phones.

BrandyGran

A clinical psychologist told me this is a problem now. She says the biggest correlation they have found in school refusers is addiction to mobile phones.
They can interact all day with other users of TikTok etc and don’t feel lonely. It is difficult for a mother on her own to monitor a child’s use especially a 14 yr old boy. I feel strongly that iPhones should be banned til chn reach 16.
I realise this could only be part or none of the problem but worth considering.

I think it’s just one view, amongst many.

keepingquiet

I used to work with these kind of troubled young people. We never used the term school refusers. Using lables like this isn't helpful.
Luckily, my LEA provided home school tuition which, as someone said above, has been cut back except in a few places.
Otherwise, it does mean an eventual CAMHS referral, but like every other service, this had also bene cut back and waiting lists are long and treatments often ineffective.
The mistake OP has made is to withdraw the child from school to give home schooling. The LEA are no longer responsible for the education of this child, and the responsibility has been handed to the parent.
Anyone considering this route needs to be fully prepared for the repercussions.
What advice can I give OP? Sadly very little- this is for the responsible parent to sort difficult though that is to accept.
I'm afraid this is a situation that could take a long time to resolve. Meanwhile as a grandparent try to maintain your normal relationship with your GC and stay away from pressuring him about going to school or learning.
Leave the situation be for a while and let mum sort out what she feels needs to be done.
Again, try not to be too judgemental about her decisions either- your role here is to support them through it as best you can.

We still don’t know which country these people are in, they may have completely different rules re local authorities or states (if in USA)

I absolutely agree though that the role of all adults around this child should be supportive and to try and find a way to discover what his issues actually are.

keepingquiet I agree.
But as I said above there may be a pre GCSE course at the local college.

In my experience the more adult nature of college courses suits some young people.
They can get funding from age 14 in the three areas near me/my daughter.

One of my grandchildren is currently going to college at 14.

I do think the word ‘naughty’ is actually not appropriate when dealing with adolescents, sorry OP you may just see this as splitting hairs, the thing is 14 year olds face so many more issues today than we did back in the day, and boys are much less able to talk about this than girls.
I sincerely hope your DD can persuade him to seek help because I think his behaviour could be a call for help.

Cossy

Allira

A much better way is a total ban o phones being used actually within schools, and social media sites being more responsible about what they allow on their sites.

Yes, agreed, but how would that help with school refusal?

I wonder how this is going to work in Australia in the long-term. 🤔

Absolutely no idea, sorry, it was just in answer to another comment around teenagers use of mobile phones.

I was just musing.
It was a rhetorical question. 🙂

I sincerely hope your DD can persuade him to seek help because I think his behaviour could be a call for help.

Yes I agree.
As I said earlier too He may not even know why he is behaving like this.

Adolescence is a difficult phase and seems even more so now than when we were young.

Cossy

keepingquiet

I used to work with these kind of troubled young people. We never used the term school refusers. Using lables like this isn't helpful.
Luckily, my LEA provided home school tuition which, as someone said above, has been cut back except in a few places.
Otherwise, it does mean an eventual CAMHS referral, but like every other service, this had also bene cut back and waiting lists are long and treatments often ineffective.
The mistake OP has made is to withdraw the child from school to give home schooling. The LEA are no longer responsible for the education of this child, and the responsibility has been handed to the parent.
Anyone considering this route needs to be fully prepared for the repercussions.
What advice can I give OP? Sadly very little- this is for the responsible parent to sort difficult though that is to accept.
I'm afraid this is a situation that could take a long time to resolve. Meanwhile as a grandparent try to maintain your normal relationship with your GC and stay away from pressuring him about going to school or learning.
Leave the situation be for a while and let mum sort out what she feels needs to be done.
Again, try not to be too judgemental about her decisions either- your role here is to support them through it as best you can.

We still don’t know which country these people are in, they may have completely different rules re local authorities or states (if in USA)

I absolutely agree though that the role of all adults around this child should be supportive and to try and find a way to discover what his issues actually are.

In the absence of knowing I just wrote my reply as if OP was UK resident.

I have no idea of how these things are dealt with elsewhere.

That said it is still the place of the parent and not the GP to find what help is available and I hope the problem is resolved soon for all concerned.

She has requested help but all she is getting at the moment are demands for her to show how his home schooling is developing! They said because she chose to go down the home schooling route and he wasn’t actually expelled from school that she is responsible. It was really a matter of her jumping before he was shoved! She felt it was better than him being expelled long term It also means she can’t get funding for him to attend a college now he has turned 14!

Many thanks to all who have joined this discussion. There is some good advice given by some and I will work through some of the suggestions with my daughter. I would like to clear up the misunderstanding that I am someone who doesn’t believe in the seriousness of mental health. I was wrong to say I felt he was choosing to be naughty because I do believe he needs some mental health support. This is why I have tried to persuade him to see his GP but he refuses. Also, having brought up a DGS with ADHD and ASD I understand more than most. He had support from CAMHS and with a lot of support on both sides we managed to get him through mainstream school. He is now 30 and I still give him some support and guidance even though he now lives independently. This does not seem to be the case with my youngest GS. And there is as others have said an absolute post code lottery of support. I have already paid for some online tuition but he is also refusing to take part in that. He still has regular contact with dad but he refuses to even discuss the situation and says basically it’s up to my daughter as she is responsible for him during the week. Thank you again for some understanding and helpful feedback.

sankev, I have every sympathy for the dilemma your family face. I think mental problems in children are the most intractable to deal with and there is so little support available.

Absolutely MOnica, this world seems so much more complicated to navigate than the world I remember growing up! I honestly don’t know how I would have survived as a young person now. So much pressure especially from social media it’s no wonder mental health issues are so much more prevalent now.

sankev

Absolutely MOnica, this world seems so much more complicated to navigate than the world I remember growing up! I honestly don’t know how I would have survived as a young person now. So much pressure especially from social media it’s no wonder mental health issues are so much more prevalent now.

Hit the nail there Sankev!

I would suggest again that you stop pressuring him into doing schoolwork- it isn't your role here.

Just let him know you are there for him in any form that usually takes and let him find his own way through it. Also the same for your DD who is living a nightmare just now.

You should be the steady rock for them both.