School refuser, advice needed!

Can he come to you for days or half days out on a regular basis? Visit parks, museums, galleries, NT properties, gardens etc etc. And just talk to him gently about anything that engages his interest (not trying to teach him, just conversation). He will learn something from you and the experiences. If you can establish this as a regular event it will help establish a routine for him, important for future working life. You might be able to take him with you on any local group walks (I have met a few home ed children doing so with parents or GPs at local nature reserve and library events). Look at it as learning in the broadest sense.
One other bit of advice for your DD, switch off the internet at home as much as possible especially overnight and no mobile.

Cossy

eazybee

I would say this boy is 'out of control,' as in his mother cannot control him, not even to the extent of a trip to the doctor. He is fourteen, and seems to have done as he pleases, for whatever reasons, for the last two years. He and she definitely need professional intervention, and soon.
I wondered if this was an American situation, with the reference to college funding.

Too young for college, not sure I understand that comment?

Cossy
When we were at school tittle tattle/ bullying was by word of mouth.
Now, they have the the internet to spread the bullying to hundreds in the school.
Let’s suppose this poor little kid was a victim of the 21st form of bullying.
I’ve seen the vile shite my granddaughter was subjected to while she was actually in the school.

No we live in the UK. I am trying to support both my DD and my DGS. It’s a very difficult situation. I am not criticising or pressuring either. The strange thing is that he is actually a very polite and kind caring young man! He doesn’t kick off even when mom is obviously pulling her hair out, he just says I’m not going and I’m not doing anything I don’t want to do! I do like the suggestion about trying to include him in some of my routine stuff where possible to begin to get some sort of routine started. It’s an excellent suggestion about switching off the internet at reasonable times, and not having phones in schools is something I support. This is a massive issue in my opinion with much more profound problems yet to be faced with this long term! But obviously that is a post for another thread. Just now I’m trying to stop my DD not having a breakdown and beginning to help my lovely DGS integrated into some sort of normal life. Again many thanks to those who are taking the time to comment on this thread. Even the most negative ones can sometimes open your eyes to a different perspective. 🙏

Establishing a rotuine is very important, but don't make it too restrictive.
Bedtime, for example, is more important than the time he gets up.
I am slightly surprised he doesn't have restrictions on his internet use already, but there are parental controls available for phone access, taking he has a phone of his own and preuming his mum pays the bills.
It can also be done for gaming, but it shouldn't be used as a punishment only as an incentive.
I really hope you can see some positive ways through this, and keep us informed of any progress please.

I'm rather envious, wish I'd thought about just refusing point blank to go to school! I had a miserable time there but rather meekly acquiesced; I would have done far better had I just been left at the local library with a list of subjects to read about. Children have a lot more control over their lives now.

If he’s not attending school and not engaging in home learning, what exactly is he doing all day? If the answer is “playing on his computer”, I think the situation could be resolved quite quickly.

No he doesn’t spend all day on his computer. He uses his phone but does actually like reading books. His dad bought him a phone and contract for Christmas so some of the restrictions are out of my DD hands. Unfortunately because of other issues, such as financial difficulties arising from the separation and then her having changed the working hours in order to support him with his problems, I think she has run out of steam. On some level, wrongly I know, I sometimes think they should just let him be! My son has a small scaffolding business and he’s already said that when he is old enough he will put him through a scaffolding apprenticeship. This is something I know would suit him. He’s a strong lad, enjoys being outside and used to love helping my late husband in the garden. He still cuts my grass. He just absolutely hates academic and the way it’s structured. But obviously this is not possible so we are trying to find a solution.

Quite a few children aren't cut out for sitting at a desk and studying. That's good he can be put through an apprenticeship and have a job waiting. It will give him some motivation and purpose. I've seen a few children like this muddle through those difficult years, then turn their lives round doing something they enjoy.
I do wish not everything was measured by academic achievement.

Would your son help?
Could he spend some time learning about the scaffolding business. How estimates/quotes etc are made?

Tell your daughter to joint the not fine in school support for school attendance difficulties face book group. There are lots and lots of parents facing these issues and she will get lots of support there. Are there any 14-16 colleges in her area? It sounds like an apprenticeship course might be more suitable for him?

We have exactly this with my youngest DGD . Once she started secondary school she couldn’t cope . My DS paid privately to be seen by a psychologist and she was diagnosed with autism .
She just can’t cope with the world due to anxiety . She went to school in year 7 but after one term refused to go back .
The following year her mum got her accepted by a much smaller school with only 400 pupils . They tried everything for her to attend . Started at one hour a day then after a month increased it to two hours . A month later 3 hours . All was well till the summer holidays and then she refused to go back .
This is a very clever girl who is not receiving an education . She was on course to take maths GCSE a year early .
I don’t know what the answer is . Her anxiety is through the roof and hardly leaves the house . Her screaming meltdowns are awful and she has very bad health anxiety . I come from a family of very stoic people who have always just got on with life and don’t understand today’s world where children are so frightened of life .

OP I don't think it is wrong to just let him be. Sometimes what these kids need is a bit of space. He sounds like a good lad with lots of practical skills that could be put to good use.

As he is a 14 year old boy who reads books, and has a possible future career plan, and already does 'odd jobs' like gardening there are positives to focus on. Taking him to library (or second hand bookshops or charity shops) to choose books might be another option to do with him. I agree with looking into 14-16 college options, though college might be a bit intimidating if school is. In some areas there are groups of home schooling parents, so maybe help your DD look for these in case they could help. Other things you may be able to help with are games to do with him, scrabble for example. It does not sound as though he is totally unreceptive to learning, just very anti traditional methods so it is a matter of encouraging him to think, broaden his mind and acquire general knowledge in other ways.

You LEA should have a department that deals with failed Home Schooling and they should send somebody out to see your daughter to see what can be done about it. My daughter had to use this service because her daughter left state education when they were moving and their house purchase was delayed by 6 months. She was home schooled whilst she was staying at my house but once they moved into their new home, she wouldn't co-operate. My daughter, who is disabled, couldn't get her into the school she could touch from her bedroom window because it was over subscribed and there was no way of getting her child into a school my daughter could take her to because of her disability. I rang the relevant department (with my daughter's permission) and within days, a home school inspector visited. My grandaughter was suddenly found a place at the school next door!!

Just send/take him to school. No other way.
He’s playing up because he has no father. Sorry but not unusual.

But CAHMS have such long waiting lists.My son was set up with sessions there aged nearly 16, then his 'worker' had to go help his own family as his father was ill,and they never replaced him!- nor set my boy up with a different worker either- i think he is still on the list but hes now almost 23.

Yes, the first place to try is the LEA, as theyve been very good with my granddaughter who has had school issues.But also your daughters/grandsons drs surgery, she can ask if they can pay a home visit, explain he's refused to go to surgery, and say whats been happening, and that she believes he needs a CAHMS/SEN refferal.Home visits are like gold dust i know, but they do reserve a few for when poeople cant come into surgery.

Is he socialising with his friends, does he go out or just stay at home online or playing games? Does he interact with his siblings, what do they think about his school refusing? Does he join in family activities, outings, visits to family, meals out etc, is it just school or is his whole life affected? Your daughter must be very worried, encourage her to get help from outside agencies or this will worsen and could take a devastating turn.

Anybody who thinks you can "just send a child to school" has no idea how difficult it is when they refuse to go. I have seen a child carried into school screaming but you can't do that with a 14 years old and it didn't help the original child much either. Autistic children and ADHD children are often accused of just being naughty and that is normally because there is a lack of understanding about how these things present themselves.

Slightest thing and he just gives up.
That is so common with neurological problems.

School wasn’t a problem until high school.
I have seen this in my own family. More demands are made at senior school with change in classes, buildings, teachers, etc triggering anxiety which wasn't there before. The gap also widens with the children who can adjust and those who can't.

"Dad has moved on with a new partner and refuses to help."
Is this a recent development? Whilst it could have some bearing on the situation, I doubt it is the whole story.

They said because she chose to go down the home schooling route and he wasn’t actually expelled from school that she is responsible.

That just isn't true. Your grandson has a right to education. However, your daughter needs to decide what she wants them to do. Does she want them to get him back into mainstream education? Also, if your grandson won't go to see the GP, your daughter can still access advice from your GP to find out what he can do to help her with her son's mental health. My grandaughter had people come to the house to engage with her.

I have an American friend who homeschooled her 2 children. She just let them get on with it and after 6 months they were fed up with gaming on their computers and actually started to show an interest in other things. They both ended up going to University and fulfilling their potential

We accessed an Ed Psych when my son was younger because he started truanting. The advice was to make home a safe space and when he chose to do what he was interested in, he would. The biggest proviso was that we should keep him on the straight and narrow because once he deviated it would be much harder to pull things back. He did carry on going to school (which was stressful for all of us) but he now has a good job and his recent ADHD diagnosis along with the medication has made an extraordinary difference to his mental health. I can't count how many teachers, parents, grandparents told me there was nothing wrong with him and that just made everything harder. It certainly made me feel like a failure as a parent and I spent many an unhappy hour wondering if I was "giving in" and making excuses for him.

Rather than say is refusing to go to school the term Emotionally Based School Avoidance is more common only used these days. We have been through this with my granddaughter, who was out of school for two years. There are lots of face book groups that offer support and information that might be useful. It’s a long road but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Although he is being home schooled, I think your GS will still be on the school role. They still have a duty of care to help. He should be referred to an Educational Psychologist, which the school can still do. They may even do an initial home assessment. Or as someone else suggested contact the Special Educational team at county. It's important to be honest with them and explain the difficulties he and you DD are going through. He is worth that and has every right to enjoy a better life with good opportunities ahead of him. Please get that help. All the best

It is an inconvenient truth for divorcing parents who have adolescent boys that boys, much more than girls, suffer from the lack of a biological father taking an interest in their lives, and their education and guiding a young man towards adulthood. It sounds to me your poor grandson is depressed and unable to express properly how he feels. The author Steve Biddulph writes on this subject.
If your daughter could consider how to approach the father and make him understand what is going on. If she has already tried this without success, maybe an empathetic friend or family member could tell him he needs to assume some responsibility for the poor lad.

Way back in 1994 I collected my youngest son from primary school and he told me he was not going to school again!
Of course I took him back as usual the next morning, had a word with the Head, who said who said he'd have a word with his class teacher to see what was wrong.
Well, four years on from that date he was still not in full school attendance. We tried changing schools, which didn't work, so we voluntarily went for home schooling.
I think the home tutor came for an hour a day.
At weekends he played golf and went out with his friends so he was still socialising.
He did return to senior school prior to exams and from there went to do a sports course at our local college.
Then started labouring for a local builder, who encouraged him to do Maths evening class, then he did a bricklaying apprenticeship.
At age 43 he now runs his own local building company and can also be seen on DIY SOS as part of the build team:-)
Coincidentally another lad who lived near us was a school refuser as well and he now runs a local rendering firm.
Having a child refuse school is mega stressful and I found it very isolating as well.
My advice would be as follows:
Contact the charity Education Otherwise.
Always think of your son in Positive terms, tell yourself there will be a good outcome! Believe me, it certainly helped us.
If he leaves with zero qualifications he can still learn and progress.
Do not go down the route of it must be Mental Health problems.
I used to remember the words of Churchill: Never, Never, never give up!
Good luck to you and your son::-)

I went to 13 primary schools which didn’t particularly enjoy as I was always the “ new girl “ and had few friends. I could have made as much fuss as possible about not wanting to get on the plane or train to my hated boarding school. I never understood why an education was important and didn’t engaged with anything I couldn’t see the relevance of. But like others in my situation we went because we had to and that was what was expected of us. Refusing to do what I was told to do usually resulted in a very painful “tanned backside “.
I’m not suggesting returning to it being acceptable to hit children at all. But who is in control? The parent or the child?

Surely going to school is not a negotiable activity. Staying at home instead doing what you want to do is not acceptable. How on earth do these situations happen? Why are we allowing children to dictate what they are and are not going to do.

I read an article today which suggests that children of the 60’s are particularly resilient. We didn’t have our parents reading psychology books on parenting. We played outside all day, no one knew where we were. We solved practical problems, building dens etc. We sorted out friendship problems ourselves without parental intervention. We learned about failure and achievements. We pushed ourselves but knew our limits. We dealt with being called names and got on with it. We didn’t have constant entertainment and we had to wait for treats. Weekends weren’t devoted to keeping us occupied and we learned how to be bored. We got on with life and developed life skills. Surely allowing a child to dictate ( maybe from a very early age and not setting acceptable boundaries) what they will or will not do is not doing them any favours.

I agree with Monica. Did the school offer any pastoral care? He can work from home ,there are loads of programmes of study ,that are free.Have you got Camms near you? He could have a cooling off period ,due to mental health ,then return to school.If he is determined to not go to school ,he needs to have counselling.Does he have any friends? Hobbies?