Do not let estrangement ruin your life.

Dawn

maddyone after reading your posts I saw your son's estrangement in a different light. I don't know what trauma your daughter caused you but you do say that your son was very supportive of you and know doubt he was very upset and worried about you. You're his mum. Know doubt he was angry too with your daughter for what she did to you.
You've now taken her back into your life and in his mind thinks she doesn't deserve it and she could do the same thing to you all over again. After all, he went through it all with you too. I don't think it's jealousy. I think it's protection because he loves you and he doesn't want to see a repeat performance. I think, and only my opinion but as I've already said, I think he is angry and thinks 'you've made your bed now lie in it' and don't expect me to come running when and if she disowns you again. I reckon he needs some time to calm down and to be honest this is how I would be feeling too if in the same situation and a little pushed out. I hope you can work out what I mean.

Sharon makes a good point, IMO, Maddy. Come to think of it, S could also be wondering how you could possibly have reconciled w/ her after all she put you through. He should have expected it, but perhaps he didn't. If so, hopefully, he'll get over it in time.

If Maddy's son is reacting in this way because of what his sister has put her though, why on earth is he doing exactly the same thing?

I’m afraid if any of you ladies could read the email my son sent to both myself and my husband, you would not be able to think that he is in any way trying to protect us. Smileless will most likely remember that our sons were both very supportive when our daughter was avoiding us. Our son states in his email that we have ‘aligned’ ourselves with our daughter. But Smileless will also remember I think, that I regularly said how much we loved all our children, but our daughter was suffering from mental health issues including severe PND. She has been treated and is recovering well now. Our son is clearly jealous of his sister, he was jealous of her before he had his child, and continues to be jealous now. Last year he totally cut off his sister, telling her he never wanted to see her again. This was not helpful in her recovery. He has now sent us a vile email, listing all our faults as he perceives them, telling us he has no respect for us, and that we do not know how to love, and have no sense of commitment or obligation, and he returned the money we had given to him for his birthday. Now obviously I can’t put all the details on here, but to put it simply, I thought he had outgrown his jealousy of his sister when he supported us in our distress over his sister, but it turns out to not be the case. We have done regular childcare for him, loved him and our grandchild, been on holidays with him, but now this. He has not however cut us off from our grandchild, who is coming for an overnight stay later today. That is why this is not a grandchild estrangement, but does appear to be an AC estrangement, clearly we have not seen him since his email. His partner will bring our grandchild to us.

We have 5 sons and 1 stepson we are close to them all apart from the third of mine 4th of DHs . He doesn’t get on with his dad who has had 2 strokes. He will agree to see me on my own but then I feel disloyal to his dad . He seems to only remember bad things from his childhood where the other brothers remember all the good things. It’s very upsetting some days it’s all my DH will talk about. I just keep reminding him that we get on fine with the others . I’m not saying we’re perfect by any means but it’s a terrible thing when you’ve had a child that rejects you in this way . I just say it’s his loss which my DH does seem to accept now.

Thank you Smileless, you’re right, why would he do this if he was protective of us. These two children of ours got on so well as children. The jealousy really seemed to start when we paid entirely for our daughter’s wedding, but we gave our sons a substantial sum of cash towards theirs. Now I think we should have taken all the money and divided it into three and given it to them. But we can’t change the past, we can only go forward and accept our behaviour may have been a mistake. Even then, although there were clear signs of jealousy, I chose to think it was not too important. Probably wrong again. It kicked off very badly when our son had his child, thus making our daughter’s children no longer our only grandchildren. Plus mental health issues, plus family history of mental health issues.
Anyway, here we are again and to be honest I’ve had enough of it. If he wants to hurt us and reject us, after seeing how upset we were before, I think I must have hardened somewhat, because I’m just thinking he can get on with it, I’ve had enough.

Soo I, it is terrible isn’t it? But you have five others who are not doing this, try to enjoy them.

Yes maddy I do remember. I remember your D's problems which was why you tried so hard to keep the means of communication open to her, and to constantly remind her of your love. She was ill so the pain and suffering she put you through was not under her control. Your son on the other hand is in control.

Thank goodness his partner is not allowing his petty jealousy to impact on your relationship with your GC. I hope that she will be able to stand against him on this issue for the sake of their child.

It's good to hear that your D is receiving the treatment she needs and is making such good progress. What a shame that your son rather than join in the celebrations of his sister's recovery and re connection with her parents, has decided to mimic her behaviour and behave in a way he was previously so incensed by. is such a destructive emotion; it was our ES's wife jealousy of our relationship with our ES and mine in particular, that resulted in our estrangement.

A terrible position for you to be in Soozi. To agree to see you but not your DH is IMO out of order. You are both his parents and come as a pair.

Although I agree parents come as a pair, I think if your son is prepared to see one of you go along with it and hopefully he will eventually be happy to see you both.

Mumofmadboys...I can see the sense in your suggestion. It does seem to be the pragmatic way forward.
But I do feel for the partner who is ostracised, treated like the scapegoat with the finger of blame silently pointed at them.
It could be construed as a controlling action ment to divide the couple in question and silently collude with the protagonist.
I don’t know how I would react in that situation!

Maddy, it definitely does sound as if your son is acting out of jealousy - and has been all along. Even his support of you and DH when you were having problems w/ your D was, I'm afraid, probably a reflection of his jealousy of her. My guess is he was hoping you'd come to see her in a more negative light and that's what he was supporting (sigh). So sorry about this.

About the weddings - As far as I know, it's traditional for parents to spend more on their DD's wedding than their DS', just as his bride's parents often spend a lot on his/her wedding. Granted, times have changed. And yes, giving 3 equal wedding contributions may have been a better idea. But it wasn't "wrong," IMO, to do things the more traditional way, and I think it's rather childish of your S to have been upset about that. Perhaps his feelings of sibling rivalry w/ your D go back farther than that? Regardless, his current behavior is out of line, IMO, and very immature.

Soozi, I'm sorry about DH's health issues and hope he is much better now. Also, I'm so sorry about the problems w/ your YDS (youngest dear son). Whatever "bad things" her remembers from his childhood, unless abuse was involved (and I'm not getting that impression), I don't understand how he can still be holding it against DH after the man has suffered 2 strokes! Mindboggling!

Are there any particular issues between him and DH that could be resolved. If so, does DH feel up to working on them?

Regardless, what an awful position YDS has put you in - rock and hard place - get to see him and leave DH behind or stand by DH but lose out on seeing YDS. I'm not sure what choice I would make. Usually, I would stand by DH, hands down - wouldn't even have to make a choice, it would be obvious to me. But, IMO, it's a more difficult choice when a DS or DD is involved.

Hmmm... I THINK in the end, I would, generally, stand w/ DH, taking the position that we're a team, a package deal, etc. However, if I thought DH had caused the rift or was being too stubborn to do what he needed to do to begin to fix the issue, then I might focus on salvaging what I could of my own relationship w/ my AC.

Then again, I see mumofmadboys' point. But that's something I'd have to talk over w/ DH. If we agreed that my seeing YDS might lead to his seeing both of us, in time, then I might go ahead and see him w/o DH. But if DH said he would feel ostracized, etc. as Namsnanny mentioned, then I wouldn't. It would be a joint decision between DH and me even if it were not a joint visit.

Please us know what you decide, Soozi.

Well said Peonyrose there is life after and during estrangement in a family. Best to keep busy, build a different but positive life, don’t dwell on the why’s and maybe’s. Distraction, self forgiveness if needed and loving the life, friends etc that we do have, is the way to go.

And not to just survive, but to have a good and happy life ???

A terrible situation to be in and for me, there's no way I would see our ES without Mr. S. That said, it's more likely that our ES would want to see his father without me. This is no reflection on Soozi.

I think that Namsnanny is right about the distinct possibility that divisions could be created in the parents' relationship; 'divide and conquer' springs to mind. How would the other parent cope, knowing that their husband or wife was seeing their EAC and quite likely the GC too?

We all want to be selfless don't we, do what we can for those we love but could we really know how our partner would feel if they didn't want to stand in our way but by being honest, and saying how upsetting the situation was, they'd know that for their sake we wouldn't agree to see our EAC without them?

Three months after my son's death and there is now a total breakdown of the already tenuous relationship with his volatile girlfriend of just over a year. And I feel relief. Like a weight has been lifted. I can't and won't hold out any more olive branches for the sake of my 4-month old granddaughter. It's just too traumatising, and I don't have the strength to deal with it. I appear to have no feelings for my granddaughter, which is a blessing (having read posts describing unbelievable pain akin to grief when GPS can't see their GC).
My GD will get all the love and support she needs from the other side of the family, so I know the mother is not on her own.
I'm now free to go on with my life without the constant nastiness, the worry, and stress that trying to be a positive part of their lives has caused.

Beeny what a sad and I am sure hard decision for you to take, not least when you are so bereaved. I hope that you can be at peace with your decision and able to move forward in the way you wish your life to go

My sincerest condolences for your loss Beeny.

It's good that you feel you are now freed from the trauma of having to deal with such a distressing situation especially as you are grieving. I hope that now the decision has been made, as Madgran has posted, you can be at peace.

Post again if you think that sharing here will help. Take care.

"Please understand that nothing will ever be enough for them. It is their problem, which they can’t handle, so they turn it around to make it yours. It is manipulative and controlling and horrible to see and hear about, let alone experience."

"Apparently this stands for fear, obligation and guilt.
Once they realise they've been living in this FOG and no longer want to do so, they cut their parents out of their lives."

Just discovered this thread, and want to say thank you to Pantglas and Smileless for the above, both of which I have found really comforting. We have been estranged from our elder son for two years, and I can identify with all of the thoughts, feelings and emotions on this thread. Thank you to all of the posters too, this thread is so understanding of our plight. Hugs and to all.

I'm glad that you've found what's been shared here of some help Nanny

An update to my problem. We are now back in our son’s life. After the hurtful email to us I responded rebutting what said and we received an email back saying that perhaps he had gone too far. Since then things have gradually improved and now we seem to be back on course and things are okay again.
I wish all estranged grandparents and parents a happy Christmas tomorrow. I understand completely that there will be some much loved people not around your Christmas table, but none the less I send my best wishes to you all. Try not to give up hope, things can improve in the future.

That's wonderful news maddyonethis will indeed be happy Christmas for you.

Thank you Smileless, yes it will a nice Christmas. I wish you a happy Christmas too, and none of us know what the new year will bring. Hopefully some reconciliations.

Here's a quote I like:

"Decide what kind of life you want to live and then say no to everything that isn't that!"