Child arrangement court order

Not necessarily notanan if one of their parents is estranged from his/her family, they only know that parent and not the rest of that side of the family.

Our GC know their father, but not his parents (their GP's), GGM's, aunts, cousins and only one of their uncles who they have very little contact with.

Their father is one "side". Half of their immediate family. Half of their heritage and genes

GPs are the childs extended family/relatives

You pass your herritage through your AC. You dont bypass them

How they want to pass on herritage/religion etc to their children is down to them, you've passed the batton!

If the child does have a contact order on them to see a GP, it is to see that individual, usually in order to continue a pre excisting relationship.

If the children have lost a parent they do not know both sides of the family. How many times do I have to say that?

Yes notanan and that individual GP or set of GP's can tell that child about other family members that the child may not have any knowledge of.

If there is no contact order for the GP's it is IMO extremely unlikely that their parents will talk about the side of the family they have estranged themselves from.

The last time our DS was with his brother, our eldest GC started asking him questions and his parents quickly changed the topic of conversation.

Do you mean Nonnie that if a child loses a parent before they've had the opportunity of knowing that parents family, and their remaining parent doesn't have contact with them either that they do not know both sides of the family? If I've understood that correctly, then I agree with you.

If there is no contact order for the GP's it is IMO extremely unlikely that their parents will talk about the side of the family they have estranged themselves from.

That is absolute nonsense. Just because parents discontinued a relationship with their own parents as adults does not mean that the pretend their lives up to that point did not exist!

Of course EAC talk about their own childhods and upbringing and early family lives with their own children.

They are ceasing to contact individuals they no longer have a relationship! That is all!

My goodness me you have a frankly bizarre view of EAC

You really think if their kid says "daddy, how did you celebrate christmas in your house when you were growing up?" he's going to reply saying he was never a child! And never experienced christmases in that era or culture? just^ because there were people there at the time that he now doesnt see???

How odd that you think like that!

Not quite Smile I'm thinking of children who have had an excellent relationship with a separated parent and their side of the family but then the parent is dead and the whole family cut off. If it is true that our memories go back to when we were three, or even older, then the children will have many happy memories and not understand why they are no longer allowed to see people they love and who love them. How can anyone suggest that is good for children?

Nonnie Madgran77 Wed 28-Aug-19 16:51:51 another reasonable post

Thanks!

It's not odd at all notanan and neither is it nonsense. How on earth would you know how all EAC are when it comes to talking about, or not talking about their families?

Our ES and his wife prevented our GS from talking about his family to his uncle. I wonder how you became such an expert on the entire subject of estrangement. Disagree with me by all means but don't tell me that my opinion is absolute nonsense because it isn't the same as yours.

Ah I see nonnie, yes that makes sense to me.

notanan It is hard perhaps to picture how different adults operate within their decision to estrange from another person, and whatever their reasons for the estrangement logically would impact on how they decide to deal with their decision, with their children! I worked with someone a while ago who had estranged from her parents for reasons I personally thought were valid, and I think estrangement is a last resort and only valid in very very particular circumstances. It would probably have been easier if she had been able to do it earlier. She made the decision to never discuss her parents with her young children, despite them having had a close relationship with their GC until the twins were 5 years old. If they asked any questions she told them their grandparents didnt want to see them. If they asked about her own childhood she said she didnt want to talk about it. Her twins would now be in their 20's and I dont know how things have worked out. It was her decision to operate like that within her estrangement which was her prerogative. Her children quickly learnt not to ask.

Of course it is! Say GPs raised their AC in X religion

Either:
1. AC raise their children in that religion
2. AC raise their children with elements of that religion, blending it with their partners culture and new traditions
3. AC decide not to raise their AC in that religion, however having been themself raised with it, they are a sufficient authority on it and can still speak knowledgebly about it to their children

I do not need to know which the AC chose to know that they are able to pass their own culture onto the child! And if they do decide it is best to sanitise parts of it, thats their place too!

It is the parents, not GPs role to decide how to filter it down to the next generation, and they are well placed to having been themselves raised with it! Unless of course they were not raised with cultural references, in which case the GPs arent much of an authority on it themselves are they?

This is a complete waste of time and going around and around in ever decreasing circles is making me dizzy.

Whatever culture/religion you raised you son as Smileless, it is now his culture and upbringing.

Your son is his childs main connection to it. He is not cut off from that culture so long as he has his pareng who was raised with it.

They may not pass it on the way you chose to pass it on to your children, but that is natural and normal even in non estranged families.

E.g. the GP may have maintained a strict catholic household
The AC may be athiests. But they were still raised catholic . A lapsed catholic can still answer the childs questions with authority on the subject. They may continue some of the rituals/traditions(or not) but it remains their cultural background and thus is passed down to the GC, al beit in a different way. The connection to the culture is not lost if the parent is there.

Culture morphs with every generation anyway. It is not the GPs place to teach it to the GCs the way they taught it to their own kids.

Lets face it, estranged or not, if both your GCs parents are alive & around and you start describing yourself as half the childs family... well youre gonna have problems one way or another!

Smileless

"This is a complete waste of time and going around and around in ever decreasing circles is making me dizzy."

We can finally agree on something

My comments are vanishing, I need to learn to Internet better. I tried to comment that I talk about my childhood to my children, all the positive and some of the sad. Never the awful though, they shouldn't carry my burdens. Luckily they disliked her for themselves. If they had had a good relationship I would have let them go older, not younger and unequipped to deal with interigation or manipulation though. The rest of my family estranged from me. So I carry no guilt for that.

I suppose technically, my mother estranged permanently from me too. I asked for counselling together and was ignored. She has now moved leaving no forwarding details.

Maybe we have estranged each other, I wanted an apology and validation for my experience and counselling to work on our relationship for the future. She wanted me to pretend it didn't happen and accept her treating me like poo again.

I'm glad you were strong enough not to let your mother do that, Razz.

Thinking about Nonnie's point, as I understand it - If a child's parent dies and the remaining parent estranges them from the deceased parent's relatives, then the child may not be told much about that part of their heritage. It's not necessarily the case but very likely. Unfortunate, I agree, but not the end of the world for the child. As long as they are brought up in a happy, stable home they will probably be ok (not talking about the loss of meaningful relationships here, just about the loss of connection w/ a heritage).

However, today, it is easier than ever to learn about one's heritage. It may not happen till the child is older, but, if they're interested, they can learn about the "missing" heritage online, via books, etc.

In fact, if they are so inclined, they can search out their dead parent's family tree online - and sometimes get more - and more accurate - information than they would from relatives, LOL! Is it nicer to learn all this from the people, themselves, and hear family anecdotes, etc. Yes, I think so. My point is just that they won't miss out on their deceased parent's heritage entirely if they don't have contact w/ those relatives.

If the deceased parents' side of the family are cut off, then who is going to be able to answer questions about what their daddy/mummy was like.

I think it's extremely cruel, and it has happened to a user on here whose daughter died.

Their dad packed them up and moved away.

If the deceased parents' side of the family are cut off, then who is going to be able to answer questions about what their daddy/mummy was like.

Their other parent can!

DH knows me better than anyone. He knows all about my childhood.

I like to think I know more about my daughter as a child than anyone else.