Child arrangement court order

And there are drama stirrers out there that may enjoy telling the GP that the child is suffering from missing them when theyre not.

Why would anyone trust someone who passes on such a message? If its true it still achieves nothing but to upset and keep emotions high. So not a message a trust worthy party would impart..

Truth Notanan

Notanan Your examples are tales of your own motherhood. Not of her childhood.

The examples are things that bring the children's mother a little bit closer to them ...as she can no longer be there in reality. That is precious for them and precious for MissAdventure too, perfectly valid and something for them all to hang on to.

Frankly I can see no relevance any more in what is complete semantics, ignoring even the reality of the difficult times that people face and they way they work through those in the best interests of the children involved and themselves as well.

MissAdventure

Semantics matter when we are talking about whether or not the law should change!

The scenario presented that started the discussion about death was where there IS a partner/another parent.

Your post Hithere today 17.31 made me smile; I'm glad that we've found something we can agree on.

MissAdventure some moving posts. I'm sorry for the loss of your dear daughter. Your GC are fortunate that they have you to share your priceless memories of their mother.

A friend of mine lost her mother as a child. Her way of moving on was to remember, but not dwell. Her family understood that. Except for one aunt. She insisted that every visit was to be spent talking about her dead mother.

My friend told me it was miserable and nothing would stop it, until she eventually stopped seeing the aunt.

Aunt apparently felt it was her DUTY to pass on stories. However, all it did was depress my friend and eventually ruin a relationship.

It’s such a fine line. So many helpful people are so sure their way is right that they can’t stop to see how it affects others. Not surprisingly, aunt became an overbearing grandmother as well who really struggled to learn boundaries

I dont see how a griefing child being packed off for compulsary visits can do them any good. I really dont.

The applicatiom for leave "gateway" protects grieving families. A year long court case with multiple hearings may be the financial and emotional straw that breaks the remaining parents back!

Extended family may crave the consistancy of the grieving children staying nearby but that may not be what they need to find their "new normal"

I know one family where the family home was kept and extended family treated it almost like a shrine, getting upset if walls were painted because X had chosen that colour etc... the deceased became almost the biggest character in the family, there was always an "empty chair". They were never allowed to become a "family of 2" IYKWIM.

I know this affected the child because they started deliberately making all the opposite life choices to the "ever present" deceased parent. E.g. if the GPs said the deceased loved history in school the child would pick geography, even if they were getting As in history and Ds in geography!

If the remaining parent had been "allowed" to make a new normal, maybe move away, and adjust to being a family of 2 the child wouldnt have grown in their dead parents shadow like that?

The scenario presented that started the discussion about death was where there IS a partner/another parent.

But the response was to someone presenting a different scenario.

All the scenarios end up with more damage to children. Granted its a spectrum of damage depending on the reasons a grandparent was cut off, but still more damage to children.

None of that applies to my family, just for the record.

Because all families are different.

Because all families are different.

Which is why GPs have to apply for permission to take the parents to court, as it is not always in the childs best interests to put their household through the process!

A GP suing a recently bereaved family for example would and should be denied permission

Well, I'm sure there are a myriad of times when it wouldn't be appropriate to allow grandparents to sue for access.

We can all agree on that.

Which is why the law needs to stay as it is, no automatic right to a court case.

The system of having GPs first apply and an assessment made as to whether the court case would be too much of a stain on the childs immediate family

I know that many couples (online at least) are stating they are writing their wills to state that should an estranged adult child pass, they want their estranged parents to have access. They want their wishes respected in death.

Should grand parents still go for access then?
(I think not, but I am curious what those who support going to court think)

Sorry Summerlove I don't understand your post. Do you mean that some AC who have estranged their parents are stating in their wills that once they (the AC) have died, they want their EP's, their children's GP's, to have access?

I think she meant that the parents are writing into their wills that should they pass they do not wish the estranged grandparents to have access to their children I don't know how that would stand up legally.... I also think that surely said grandparents would have to be among the awful ones for their children to think up writing it into their will? It seems extreme otherwise.

Well in the event of both parents death: the childrens courts are reluctant to give GPs guardianship anyway as ot risks the child being bereaved of 2 pairs primary carers before reaching adulthood. So if the larents suggest guardians of the parents generation (e.g. aunts/uncles) the courts usually honour that. With no will they only chose GPs as a last resort.

You cant DEMAND in your will who your DC go to. It is ultimately up to childrens court. But if it is reasonable they will honour it.

When making our will we were advised to list several preferences of people from our own generation

I’m sorry yes, that grandparent NOT have access.

These adult children are afraid of lawsuits against surviving spouse, so want their wishes respected by the courts.

It was just a thought I had with all the talk about how a child “deserves” to hear heritage from grandparents

I dont think its entirely legally binding to do that here but does protect the spouce from the GPs claiming (lying) that they were a close family before the death and that the deceased would have wanted it.

Thanks for the clarification Razz and Summerlove.

Starlady Thu 29-Aug-19 18:33:46 yes, I understand that but what about the damage done to the young child when it happens? If they have had a loving relationship with the dead parent and then afterwards the GPs and wider family and suddenly that is all cut off that must damage the children. First they lose a parent and then the whole of one side of the family. Poor children. I spoke to a policeman not long ago who said his brother had committed suicide because his wife wouldn't let him see the children. How would his children feel about being cut off from everyone?

Precisely notanan so a nasty vindictive parent can poison the poor child's mind. How does that make the child feel? Confused and upset I would think. I heard a 5 year old tell a younger sibling that "Mummy tells lies but Grandma doesn't". How does such a child cope with the loss of people he/she loves when they know their parent is a liar?

All these comments about GPs harming the children if they are forced to go to court seems to forget that the same, possibly worse happens when a parent goes to court for access to their child. As I said in my previous post it can cause suicide.

Mummy tells lies but Grandma doesn't"

How does a child even know that unless a grandma is feeding it to them?

Sounds like parental alienation to me - with no further facts