Child arrangement court order

Summerlove I must have missed that. Estrangement is not emotional abuse. Silent treatment is though. Estrangement is the end of a damaging relationship to prevent further harm. Silent treatment is punishment for periods of time. Very different to each other.

Lost child, my comment was based off of one that Smileless had made

*Smileless2012

That got me thinking nonniesmile. I wonder if within the context of parents abused by their AC if estrangement is includedhmm.

One tends to think of financial and those horrifying accounts of physical abuse. Estrangement may I suppose be taken into account when looking at emotional abuse*

Oh dear.

Often emotional abuse literally changes a growing child's brain. You don't have to hit someone to cause physical changes. There are plenty of stress related illnesses. There are anxiety disorders with physical symptoms. Complex post traumatic stress syndrome and let's not forget self harm and suicide. All may result from emotional abuse.

Estrangement is not anything. It is ending the relationship.

There has to be a relationship for there to be abuse either way.

There are some people who extreme sulk and threaten estrangement as a form of control but keep the relationship going thats different.

Estrangement is everything to the parents and GP who find themselves estranged despite being loving and caring parents notanan.

LostChild from an EP's perspective, estrangement is emotional abuse due to the never ending period of silence that follows it, once the abusive emails have stopped that is.

Estrangement isn't just the ending of an abusive relationship. It can be the end of a perfectly healthy and loving relationship often destroyed by the influence of a third party.

Estrangement experienced by adults can also produce "anxiety disorders with physical symptoms". A few years ago while visiting our son in Aus. Mr. S. went into hospital with a suspected heart attack.

He underwent a series of tests and the doctor told us it was an extreme anxiety attack. He told us about 'sad heart syndrome' where extended periods of anxiety can damage heart muscle.

Thankfully Mr. S.'s heart was and is fine but he warned us about the dangers to his health that our son's estrangement of us could have.

I appreciate that you have suffered at the hands of your parents but we have suffered at the hands of our son.

Estrangement may be sad, distressing, bereavement, lots of things!

But it is not a relationship. The relationship is over. So it cannot be an abusive relationship.

The sad truth is that as adults, we can choose to have a relationship with another adult - or not

When there is estrangement, both parties are hurting - estrangees and estrangers.

Nobody wins in an estrangement.

There are many sides to a story. Where parents say they are loving and caring, it may translate as smothering to the ACs.

Estrangers may say they are estranging to avoid further abuse and protect themselves.

"Estrangement may be sad, distressing, bereavement, lots of things". There no "may be" about it, it is all of those things.

It would be very enlightening if both sides give their POVs and then compared- what parents say vs ACs say.

"Estrangement may be sad, distressing, bereavement, lots of things". There no "may be" about it, it is all of those things.

Not always. Some people spent so long grieving for what they hoped the relationship could have been whilst they were still in the relationship, still trying, that by the time they gave up hope and leave the relationship they feel no loss (or no new loss).

And some people just dont necessarily like or love someone else just because they share genetics so dont see the point.

Its not always dramatic. Its usually more like closure: knocking out the loose tooth so it stops hurting.

If someone who was hurting me estranged from me I would regard that as a release from emotional abuse, not an act of emotional abuse. I have had family members estranged from me who think I am a bad person thanks to mum. I don't feel abused by them, just let go. They believe the lies too so, probably are justified in their own minds. It hurts, but it isn't them being abusive.

Its just like divorce really. Same range of reasons apply. One party not wanting the divorce is no reason for the other to stay in the marraige. And the one who instigates divorce proceedings is not by default the villan of the pair either.

Divorce is not a form of abuse. It is sometimes a response to it and a solution to it and hopefully an end to it. Divorcing someone is not abusive just because the divorce process may be sad or emotional.

Notanan, awesome reply

It is common for abusive controlling people to have a huge physical and mental/emotional response when the person they abuse finally walks away.

A common phrase is "you did this to me" about whatever mental/physical/lifestyle breakdown happens to the abuser when the public/street veil falls and they are "abandoned".

But their victim is not doing that to them. It is the effect on their pride and their psyche of losing control and being shamed by being left.

Divorce is now a few years ahead of family estrangement in terms of social understanding.

Was a time when any man whose wife left him was pitied. How could she? How can he be expected to cope. Wifes have a DUTY to stick by their husbands. How can a wife do that? She must be heartless.

And she would be blamed if he was drinking himself to death "because she left me" whereas nowadays one would think "hmm, maybe thats why she left you?"

If the GPs' DS has visitation, then I can see the GPs turning to him for access. In fact, that generally seems to me to be the best way to go, and, to my understanding, most XDILs prefer it. But if DS had no interest and was ok w/ XDIL moving far away, etc., then I don't agree w/ the GPs pressuring him into going to court, and I can barely imagine why he would give into them. Yes, I can understand their wanting to maintain contact w/ the children despite the dad/DS, and I applaud them for it. But coercing DS into pretending he's interested just to make that happen? No. And causing XDIL and the kids a lot of strife on top of it just to suit the GPs' wishes? No.

But I also agree w/ Smileless that it's hard to know the actual reasons behind the dad's apparent change of heart. What people are saying and what he's really thinking/feeling could be two very different things.

I hope I'm just being over sensitive notanan, I really do. I hope that your post at 22.52 in which you said "It is common for abusive controlling people to have a huge physical and mental/emotional response when the person they abuse finally walks away" was not in response to my post of 21.39 yesterday.

I do wonder though as I posted about my DH going into hospital with a suspected heart attack and being told that it was due to an extreme anxiety attack.

If that was not your intention to imply that my DH was in shock because our son who he'd abusively controlled had decided to walk away, you need to say so.

Over the 6 plus years of posting on all matters connected to estrangement, there have been many times when I've been shocked by some of the responses I have seen, be they in response to me or another poster.

Never, in all that time have I ever read a post seemingly directed to me, that reduced me to tears, until this morning. I always do my utmost to be polite and sensitive to others regardless of which side of the estrangement issue they find themselves on or argue for or against.

To say your post was insensitive would be an understatement. If it was not your intention to upset and distress me with your post, you need to say so. If you do not assure me of this I can only assume that your post was directed at my DH and it was your intention to hurt and upset me to the extent you have.

That would make your post the cruelest and most deplorable one I have ever had the misfortune to read on GN.

I thought that was a general comment Smileless, about abusive parents. I was very hurt by the assertation that estrangement is emotional abuse, but I worked hard not to take it personally because I know that is not why I did it.

I mentioned in an earlier comment about reacting badly to someone else's behaviour. I can't tell you how often I was blamed and shamed for having a bad reaction to my mums behaviour and ultimately that meant her bad behaviour was not addressed at all. Now, I would guess that estrangement is the ultimate reaction to bad behaviour when a parent is abusive, but that is not an intrinsically bad reaction. Especially if you have tried everything within your power to have a good and positive relationship with that person. Again I want to say that is true in any abusive relationship... I can only comment on my experience though.

Obviously I don't think it was a general comment and TBH I don't understand why anyone else would.

I'm sorry if you were upset by the "assertation that estrangement is emotional abuse" LostChild but you have to try and understand that the perspective from a parent who lost a child they had a wonderful relationship with for 27 years until he married, differs entirely from an AC who estranged their parents due to abuse.

Saying that an EP regards their estrangement as emotional abuse is not personally directed at you or any other estranging AC. That is a general comment.

notanan's post was too closely linked to mine for it to have been a general statement. If she did not intend it to have the affect on me that it did, only she can say so.

"I can only comment on my own experience though" yes of course LostChild that is all any of us can do. Our experience.

I wouldn't dream of commenting negatively to anything that you have experienced and don't expect anyone to comment negatively on my experience. Especially the experience of the fear I, our DS and his wife went through when we didn't know if my DH was having a heart attack.

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