Child arrangement court order

Lost Mumsnet is referred to sometime as 'the other place'. Who has lumped you in with them?

Namsnanny Wed 04-Sep-19 15:40:24 excellent post.

Summerlove Wed 04-Sep-19 16:22:29 I don't understand your sense of humour, please explain?

notanan2 Is it sad that not one iota of your posts shows sympathy or understanding of how you have made smile feel. I think you must be American because of your spelling and perhaps that is the way Americans behave and we in the UK don't understand such aggression. It is less important which of you is right or wrong, surely a little empathy would go a long way?

Oh I don't have an account there. I only joined here to answer one post and that lady has now left. Then I stayed out of curiosity

Thank you for your comments Summerlove.

It is common for abusive controlling people to have a huge physical and mental/emotional response when the person they abuse finally walks away.

notanan I accept that you may or may not have meant this to refer directly to Smileless reference to what happened to her husband. However I can also see how it could be interpreted as a reference to that coming pretty quickly after her post describing that

I am wondering how you know "it is common?" A human reaction to any emotional trauma can be physical and mental; I have experienced that myself to a traumatic situation (nothing to do with estrangement or even my family!) So the fact that an AC or GP who has been estranged by someone has a physical/emotional response does not I suspect lead others to assume that that person has been abusive/controlling! So I am not really sure what your point was in this context?

Another sensible post Madgran good to read another voice of reason.

I think it would more hide that a person was abusive if they have a physical and emotional response to estrangement. It would clearly fool people into thinking that they had done nothing wrong, because I would guess a lot of people would expect no response from someone who is abusive, or maybe a purely angry response?

The thing is that abusers are attached to their victims, they rely on them to be an emotional or literal punchbag so that they can maintain a facade in other areas of their lives. So yes an abusive person could appear just as devastated as a non abusive person. Just for very very different reasons.

The point is that the "estrangement" is the termination of the relationship, abusive or otherwise. Its like divorce in that way Estrangement is not a form of abuse. Just because a person is upset by it, doesnt make it abuse.

I am wondering how you know "it is common?" there are plenty of statistics on it. Lots.

Today is an action day regarding the rights of GP's to see their GC. There was to be a meeting at the Palace of Westminster called Broken Bonds: The Plight of Children Estranged from Their Grandparents.

The aim is to ensure legislation implements what the EU Court of Justice ruled in May, that "grandparents have a legal right to see their grandchildren". "The right of access refers also to....other persons with whom it is important for the child to maintain a relationship.

We'll have to wait and see what, if anything can be done to assist those GP's who wish to pursue the relationship they once had with their GC through the courts, as they've been left with no other alternative.

At least some recognise the importance of the GP/GC relationship even if some parents are unable to do so.

I think most parents will tell you there is great value in relationships with grandparents and extended family in healthy environments.

Environments where there is estrangement and people suing for access is categorically not healthy.

No matter who is “right” or “wrong” it’s unhealthy for all

Correct me if I am wrong Smileless, but that EU law pertains to access after parents divorce right? Not access after estrangement. Without accidentally starting a political discussion, they don't have long to write that into the Children's Act if we are to brexit

If that were always the case Summerlove there would be no need to enshrine the rights of some GP's and their GC in law.

Smileless, The problem comes when not everyone agrees on what a healthy relationship is. I might feel I have an healthy relationship with my mother. She might feel our relationship is extremely unhealthy. Who’s rights win? In my mind, the person who feels the relationship is unhealthy gets to make the choice to back away from the relationship

But they haven't Smileless, that's parents who divorce, not cases of estrangment

The problem with that is that the person who feels the relationship is unhealthy may simply be following their own agenda.

Well no need to worry, it will fail, because in the UK even parents do not have "rights" to children. They have "parental responsibility" not "parental rights" Nobody in UK law has a "right" to any child. It is the child who has rights.

So whoever that group are getting their legal advice from looks like theyve beem googling US legal jargon by mistake! Oops!

So dont panic your children and GC will not be pulled from pillar to post so that 4 different adults who should know and care better get their "rights" to the child!

I haven't commented on whether estrangement is abuse or not. I personally dont think it is but I accept others may not agree.

My point was that people have emotional/physical responses to lots of different traumatic experiences, divorce included as you say....not necessarily because they have been controlling or abusive but because the experience is traumatic for them. Where can I find the statistics on controlling/abusive people having a huge physical, mental, emotional response when someone walks away, as opposed to people generally having a physical , mental emotional response to a traumatic event ?

As is their right as an adult.
as it stands now, parents make the legal choices for their children. Unless you are suggesting we overhaul the entire system, who do you think actually gets to make choices for their own children?

I certainly wouldn’t have appreciated my parents, my in-laws or extended other family telling me how I should be raising my children and having legal rights to do so.

Parents have the right to parent as they wish.

Extended family is allowed In on the parents goodwill.

I think families should have relationships. But even more, I believe that parents, as legal guardians, should be respected as the authority on their own children. Again, baring cases where authorities are involved.

Grandparents and extended family are lovely. They are not necessary.

I had to go look in the mirror in case I had actually turned invisible. Now I am worried have imagined myself

I have no idea where you could find those statistics Madgran but as there are 'lots' they must be available somewhere.

Well then lost, I’ve imagined you too

It's the rights of the children Summerlove and there is clearly some doubt as to whether some parents have the right to deny their children their GP's, hence the EU Court of Justice ruling.

lostchild that's funny.

notanan2 not being difficult but can you link to some of the statistics to which you refer?

everyone not talking about courts or anything and this is only a thought, but is it possible that just sometimes an estranger could be a super sensitive person who takes easily offence and could over react.

I said that an adult has the right to choose who they want in their life. They have a right to follow their own agenda.

You came back with it’s the children’s rights.

I think I understand what you were trying to tell me, but I don’t think you were actually taking on board what I am saying.

It is not in most children’s best interest to go through a court case so that the grandparents their parents have chosen not to have a relationship with then have access to the children.

As lostchild stated, The case you are discussing about in the EU is about divorced parents. Not estranged grandparents

If GP's have become estranged from their GC due to a divorce, they are still estranged GP's.

That is always a possibility Coolgran.