Child arrangement court order

kaimegan Although I am very fortunate in not being put in this terrible position, I would none the less like to thank you and praise you for taking action right to the top - as far as you could go. I cannot imagine the pain of being kept away from your grandchildren and how much worse that is knowing the DGC are missing you. I would like to suggest we all, not just those affected, but all of us who care at GransNet get behind a petition to make a fair Law enabling GC to see their GParents. Maybe we could all start by writing to our own MP? Please give me advice concerning what to say.
Do not give up. The children need their grandparents.

Sadly grandparents don't feature where some courts are concerned-----social services too

Yet when some awfulcase about a child hits the courts and the headlines someone always bleats But where were the family to see what was happening?

Generally it's accepted that the parents have the right to make decisions regarding their children.

In the event of a breakdown though it's almost always the woman who makes the demands. I have known a couple where the marriage of their son broke down, he and his wife had joint custody but the mother insisted that whenever the children were with their father they should not be allowed to see his parents. Her parents, who were very involved in the break down, naturally carried on seeing the children.

Yes FlyingSolo it is possible to love a child you've never met. We love both of our GC even though we've never met the youngest and haven't seen his brother since he was 8 months old.

My heart goes out to the GP's who established a relationship with their GC, spent time with them and got to know them before having them taken away.

It does help doesn't it Unhappy when you realise that your estrangement is not because of anything you've done. To begin with, those feelings of guilt and shame are over whelming and make the pain all the more harder to deal with.

Good post kaimegan so no need to run for cover. It is good news about September's meeting. With the increasing number of P's and GP's becoming estranged, it looks as if this is becoming the 'norm'.

I wonder how many GC will grow up feeling as you do Blossomsmum and not just the ones who once had a relationship with their GP's but also the ones who will never have known them.

That's very sad Minshy, to be cut out of your daughter's life because you no longer wanted to stay in an unhappy marriage. You see your other GC which shows that your D's the one at fault and not you.

Why would he go along with that outrageous demand EMMF? Joint custody means joint in all decisions concerning the children so one parent cannot lay down the law and demand that the other parent not allow their parents to see their GC.

I just don't understand why someone would go along with this when the marriage has broken down anyway. Sheer spite on the part of the d.i.l.

Smileless,

If his parents are unsafe for the child, disregard safety measures, allergies, medical routine care, parenting rules, father using grandparents as childcare while he goes and has the great single life during his custody time, etc

It is to be seem case by case. There is not a all size fits all

That's a very big 'if' Hithere and where the father's parents have had access to their GC prior to the break up of the marriage it's obvious that for the ex d.i.l. to do all she can to prevent that access from continuing, she's acting out of spite.

The breakdown of a relationship doesn't automatically make one set of GP's unfit to have a relationship with their GC when they were fit enough before.

To be seen, not seem.

There must be a reason the son continued to go along with that.

Always more to a story

Minshy....why do you think youve been punished for leaving an unhappy marriage?
That took a lot of courage on your part...and u shouldn't put the blame of things that happened on yourself.
It must have been a difficult time for you....and surely your daughter should have supported you.
Please don't blame yourself.
I have mentioned in other posts...that sometimes we have to admit to ourselves..are children have grown into
Not very nice adults.
Staying in your unhappy marriage..would have meant you living a lie.
Give yourself a pat on the back..for being a strong woman.
Unfortunately your daughter appears not to have these traits.
Love yourself...and take care..

Unhappy, even if our parents divorce once we are adults, that doesn’t mean that we don’t get to have feelings about it.

I was devastated when mine divorced, it turned out the wonderful family life I thought I had was a lie.

It’s easy to say that daughter is “not nice”, but we don’t know all the details

Summerlove...of course your right adult children. Are entitled to their feelings.
Perhaps my view is from that...my son now age 49
Has never forgiven me for having an affair 39 yrs ago.........Hes carried that to this day...and finally got his revenge by stopping me from seeing my grandson.
So perhaps I am a bit bias..

Reciprocating what you regard as bad behaviour with bad behaviour of your own is not the way to behave.

I felt the same way when my parents divorced Summerlove. My father was, I found out, a serial adulterer and it was his behaviour that led to the breakdown of the marriage.

Yes I was angry at the time especially as the divorce had a terrible affect on my mum, I was 16 at the time but to go through life refusing to forgive a parent and then seek revenge by refusing to allow that parent a relationship with their GC is IMO a terrible way to behave.

Hi, I'm a soon to be GP, my oldest daughter is now many weeks farther along pregnant after 2 unbearable miscarriages. We are very happy and excited for our future!

So, My family, as well as my 2 grown children's families are estranged from my parents due to a sorted lot of events, where her other drug-addict son has threatened the life of myself and 2 grown kids. He's also a felon, that has pursued a young girl across state and terrorized her with firing a weapon at her home, and admitted to almost shooting the police officer as he fled on a 100+ MPH chase. You'd better agree with him, or there will be hell to pay.

My parents protect him, yet demean my life, believe he is 'getting better' and that I'm bad for not convincing my 2 grown children to ever be around him again and not allowing them to 'family mob' me and my wife. Oh, BTW, they say I'm now a 'cult-leader' and that God should strike me down. And apparently I'm also "Evil". You know, like the Mansons or Hitler. They have also weaved extensive lies to try and sweep this all under the rug, blame me alone, and say I'm the one that needs mental help.

Even with all of this - I've left a very limited door cracked open, that if my parents ever come back to reality, get mental help, own and be responsible for their assault & lies on our family there may be a way to salvage 'something' of our relationship (but not their other son's). They have no intention of ever doing that, so we have no path forward. They've lost their doormat, curse me, and claim 'they are the victim' and how I'm harming my own young child..

So, back to this court thing - If they took us to court to attempt to circumvent our relationship and authority of our own young daughter, that would be the final death nail in the coffin of our relationship. 100% irreconcilable at that point, cracked door would be closed, for good..

I'd recommend folks think long and hard about trying to usurp authority over a man, his wife and their child in the courts. I may cost you everything, no hope of a relationship again, with no possibility of remediation. Ever.

Additionally, I see a lot of wrong assumptions on boards like these - don't just assume that we AEC are just following some 'no contact' script, and considering estrangement over a dress worn to a wedding or some other nonsense. We don't 'need fixing' because our parents are pouring gas on themselves, in a ditch that they have willingly dug, and refuse to come up out of. It's a deeply traumatic experience to know that your own parents love a lie more than you... their own flesh and blood. And it takes a hell of a lot to get us to go NC, after many other attempts to reconcile, when there is no other possible escape. Sometimes, its the parents that need fixing.

Unbend-able, lying, demeaning, selfish, abusive parents have cut themselves out of our life, their grand-kids life, and now (hopefully soon with a healthy pregnancy ) the great-grand-kids life. And of course, they are the 'victims'. Anyone assuming that we'll 'get our due' when the tables are turned, and our kids are grown and do the same for us, just doesn't get it.. We are so disgusted with the behavior that makes a parent discard us, that we double, triple and quadrupedal down on recognizing and NOT mimicking those venomous actions that drove us away to escape the abuse. And our kids SUPPORT us, and help carry and even defend us after watching the assault on our lives with their own eyes over the years.

Sorry for the length of the post if you've made it this far - I hope that you all find the peace and happiness that we all deserve!

Twentytwenty

Very insightful post.

Insightful but pretty extreme I'd say.
Certainly not representative of most families.

Misadventure

Life can be extreme and unfair. It does not mean it is not real and it happens - often or not.

Does a parent want to hear this about them? I bet not.

If a parent really wants to solve an issue with their adult offspring, they have to be able to hear it and make changes in order to repair the relationship.

Well, that would depend on communication between them, which is often not an option.

I'm very well aware of how unfair life can be.

I'm not saying its not true, I'm pointing out that not many families have gun toting offspring, car chases etc.

The most outrageous thing that happens in my family is a trip to Aldis!

Where does the gun toting and car chases come from?

Its in the post that you said was enlightening, by twentytwenty.
His parents are protecting someone who has done those things.

Missadventure,

Thanks for the clarification! I see what you mean.

Hi again,

On the 'depends on the communication between them', I engaged a lawyer to act as an mediator between our families, get a document started that would be our list of requirements in order to have a civil, non-mom-screaming, I'm an evil, cult leader son, etc type of conversation, send it to them and then meet at my lawyers office to begin if we can find some common ground.

I needed to use a lawyer because of threats, physical stalking and cyber-stalking, are all crimes in my location, and one of the stalkers is a gun-toting felon. I began working with our lawyer to produce the letter, but my mom wrote back to the lawyer and said to them "I hear your getting a letter to send to us to meet, don't bother we don't need your letter - we'll never get in touch with them (us) again, we are through trying to mend things."

Of course, this was a lie, it was simply a maneuver to not get in front of a 3rd party and then continue to harass and try and pin me down again for yet another family mobbing alone.

The only thing my mother insists on and keeps harassing me for, is a personal face to face meeting where she says 'this is only between you as our son, and us'.. I'll just have to 'disobey' mom on that one. I gave a very reasonable option and you will agree to it or.. not...

Sorry, the isolation ploy will not happen in our lifetime, and they will grow old an eventually die of old old age trying to press my back into the corner and attack.. You'll have to just chew on one another for a few more years for your narcissistic supply, and we'll see if you're ready to talk to our lawyer again sometime in the next few years if you can get a bit more civil and stop your obsessive-compulsive lying about me.. But of course, according to them, they wish I'd stop punishing them, and they've done 'all that they know to do'.. Absolutely amazing to all of us!

Another note, it's not just protection of their 'golden child' but he also must be elevated above others. If you are successful, have a happy family and children - yet the golden child is a felon and unemployable; guess what.. You have scratched the egg unawares by your success, and the mother hen is going to make you pay for that.

So, I didn't want to get this 'court discussion' post way out into left field, so I apologize if I've steered this thread in the wrong direction. But again, my point on that was if they end-run my family with a court attempt, that would be THE last, last straw.

Peace & Happiness to all!

kaimegan Thank you.

There are some really sad things in these posts and in some it appears to be all about the parents and GPs, why is it not all about the children? Surely the children's 'right to family life' matter more than anything else?

I'm assuming that the GPs have no record of abuse because quite clearly that would be a different matter, but if one parent is cutting the children off from the whole of one side of that child's family that must be wrong? Even if the parent and GPs have fallen out shouldn't the children come first? If the GPs have been involved with the GCs and they have all enjoyed it, been collected and returned at the time specified and nothing detrimental has happened why is it fair to stop the GC seeing their GPs? Surely that is harmful to the children?

It has been suggested to wait and see and hope things improve and someone has said that the courts would see that as not being involved in the lives of the children so how long should you leave it if the parent isn't talking to you? What is the point of leaving it?

Personally, in my case, it is exactly about the 'child'..

My child, in fact.

And I'll not allow my child to be taught that I'm a cult leader and evil person by someone with a lying mental disorder.

In my personal case, it's the GPs that are harmful to my parent-child relationship and that, my friends, will not be allowed. It is the GPs that are a danger to my family, and my child.

No relationship is worth keeping that is harmful and intentionally damaging to a parent-child relationship. We can respectfully disagree if we are in different realms, but that is the very point - damage to the child must stop.

Peace & happiness to you all!

There are some really sad things in these posts and in some it appears to be all about the parents and GPs, why is it not all about the children? Surely the children's 'right to family life' matter more than anything else?

Court appointed contact is absolutely NOTHING like normal family life, and is often extremely detrimental to the childs wellbeing.

Nobody who truely cared for a child would wish them and their family to be under a court order.

It WILL punish their parents.... and damage the child as colateral damage... I guess some GPs hate the parents more than they care about the children so will still persue this incredibly destructive process anyway...