Child arrangement court order

Well I'm game if you are.

I’m sorry that you’re being made to feel uncomfortable lostchild

No worries Summerlove, I will get over it x

You're welcome, Nonnie.

Hmmm... Lots of good and interesting points, but lots of bickering, too. Hope everyone can chill after this.

About mediation - IM O, it can be a good alternative to court. But when parents refuse to go, I think it's often b/c they have nothing to gain but, perhaps, something to lose. Basically, as has been said before, the parents have the authority over who their child spends time with. If, say, they don't want their kids to spend time w/ the GPs and the GPs want to see them once a month, yes, they can compromise at every other month. However, that means the parents will have forfeited some of their authority (that's what I meant by "something to lose"), while the GPs will have an authority they didn't have before - a say in what the GC do w/ their time. IOWs, the GPs will have gained something, while the parents have lost something. It may seem that both the gain and the loss are very small here. But I imagine some parents still resent the idea. In fact, they may feel they stand more of a chance to win in court than to get anything out of mediation. IDK for sure, just ruminating...

Memory boxes that contain lies against the parents that harm parent-child relationships should be derided.

Only a narcissist would include and admit to sending along content, such as a lying letter against the GCs own parents in a 'memory box' that intended to harm the parent-child relationship.

It's their way of holding an impending, continuing threat against estranged ACs.

That's not a 'memory box', that's a 'narcissist box'.

About memory boxes - First, I agree, Twenty, that memory boxes should not include lies about the parents. In fact, I'm not sure they should include anything about the parents, just maybe a letter or journal where the GPs express, among other things, their love for their GC and let them know they missed them over the years.

As for focusing on building the GP/AGC relationship - I agree that this should be the goal if GP and AGC reunite. But there's that gap of all the years in between when they last saw each other and the present time. I can see where old cards, etc. can help to bridge that gap. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it would be heartwarming for an AGC to know that their GPs had been thinking about them all those years and hasn't just suddenly "materialized" in their lives now.

IME, at least, parents stop contact between children and GPs because the parents have a reason for doing so.

My FIL has tried to destroy my marriage and has body-shamed me. I wouldn't let my child near him with a 10-foot pole. He is not a safe person. That's my choice as a parent.

I would never allow someone I didn't trust to be around my children. If they don't treat me well, how can I trust them to treat my children well, knowing that my children are half me? Moreover, if my children are seeing that person put Mummy down and be rude to her, or go against what Mummy says, it's teaching the children that this kind of behaviour is acceptable. IME, this kind of thing also tends to occur in situations where the MIL, most commonly, sees her DS's partner as merely an incubator for the GC. Someone who doesn't respect me as a person doesn't get rewarded for their poor behaviour by seeing my children. Period.

I agree 100%, agnurse. The GPs in this case have no understanding that your family is a ‘family unit’, and they can’t treat ‘part’ of the family poorly and the ones they enjoy (GCs) well.

Damage to any member of the family is damage to the entire family. Period.

The other aspect that you may find is the MIL dislikes the wife if she’s perceived to be ‘bad for her boy’ with an over-mothering obsession that refuses to let her son become an adult.

For what it’s worth I like it when you ruminate Starlady?

I agree that it would be nice for an EGC to see cards bought for them over the years, to know they’d been thought of in their absence.

I’ve been thinking about what it would be like to answer the door and see two young men standing there, our GSs. I have mixed emotions TBH. But let’s say it happened.

It would be a gift from God so would I want to spend that precious time slagging off their Ps? Of course not I may never see them again.

It’s been seven years already and could be another ten before that happened so much has been wasted, why waste anymore. It would be a time to get to know them and for them to get to know us.

Questions would be asked of us and answered truthfully.

Who in their right mind would risk the remaining years they have left which could be spent seeing their AGC, by trying to cause a division between them and their parents?

It’s akin to paranoia to always ascribe the worse of intentions.

Smileless2012 Sat 07-Sep-19 17:21:46 shame that needed to be said and well done you for saying it.
notanan2 Sat 07-Sep-19 17:42:53

notanan2 Sat 07-Sep-19 17:42:53 then they clearly are not mediating and it is quite obvious why it is necessary to go to court when one side is so obdurate! However your response was to my comment about parents who refuse to mediate, not about mediation. It would be really helpful if you stuck to what you are referring to rather than going off on a tangent.

Summer I don't know anyone like that, it seems rather silly to me to be harping on about any sort of past when you could be having fun with your GC. I cannot think that any of the many GPs on here or in real life would do that. You really must know some very odd people. Yes, I have had stress, far more than most, but I would minimise it in front of young children and share it with my AC. If a parent has brought a self inflicted situation on themselves it is unfair to blame the person who is challenging it, especially it their motive is the good of the children.

Regarding court orders I know of a case where the resident parent deliberately took the children out at the time the court had ordered the non-resident parent to have the children. The parent refused to answer the phone. The result was that the police came and eventually talked the parent into doing what the court said. That was the end of it.

TwentyTwenty Sun 08-Sep-19 12:05:36 I'm trying to understand how lies could get into a memory box. Sorry, how does that work? Surely memories are just that?

agnurse Sun 08-Sep-19 02:35:07
IME, at least, parents stop contact between children and GPs because the parents have a reason for doing so. I think we have all said that if a GP is harmful to a child we don't think they should be allowed to see them but when you say 'reason' that covers a multitude of sins. The 'reason' may have nothing at all to do with the children, it can simpy de about control, spite,narcissism etc.

A question: why would a court give permission for a child to be allowed to spend time with a damaging GP? If a parent has a 'reason' to prevent access, surely they can say so in court? If the GP has evidence that the break has been caused just out of pure nastiness Then the court would see that. I do think the family courts have enough experience to see the truth

Who in their right mind would risk the remaining years they have left which could be spent seeing their AGC, by trying to cause a division between them and their parents?

It’s akin to paranoia to always ascribe the worse of intentions.

You really do like to fling labels about Smileless. I'm a paranoid gran hater! Sounds a bit like a 90s indi band!

Firstly I is assuming worst intentions to think that there is a productive way to navigate a relationship like that after an estrangement, and a counterproductive way. I never assumed that everyone would chose the counterproductive way.

Secondly. Some people do chose the counterproductive route. I know of one in real life where the AGC reached out to the GP during a spat with their parents.. I think looking back the AGC was somewhat using the GP as they were in a huff with their parents and reaching out to someone that they saw as their parents "enemy" was an act if defiance! Anyway the GP did "bite" and joined the AGC in a AC slagging session & giving the AGC gifts that were no longer age appropriate because "your parents never let me give you this".... then the AGC made up with their parents and the GP was dumped. The GP now blames the AC for the AGC dumping them but IMO had they spent the time that the AGC was in contact with them on a topic other than the AC, the "new" relationship (GP/AGC) may have had more longevity

"Firstly it is not assuming worst intentions to.."

TwentyTwenty Sun 08-Sep-19 12:05:36 I'm trying to understand how lies could get into a memory box. Sorry, how does that work? Surely memories are just that?

Well firstly, memories ars not memories if they never happened

"This is what I would have given you, this is where I would have taken you..." its not a memory of anything

Its hypothetical fantasy grandparenting. And its easy to paint a picture of what an amazing GP you could be if you didnt have to do it in practice. Its just fantasy. Its not even about what it would have been like in reality

Secondly the "this is the card I would have given you" leaves the rest of the sentance hanging in the air even if unsaid: "IF YOUR PARENTS HAD LET ME". Its acusatory. This makes it about the parent not the child.

One of our kids GPs does this a bit to a lesser extent. We do see them but theyre full of "oh if you'ld been here last week I could have taken you to the festival in the village.."

Firstly, its a passive aggressive dig at us! Never mind that we drove all the way down there THIS weekend its all "its a shame your parents didnt bring you LAST weekend"

Secondly, HAD we come last weekend, they bloody wouldn't have taken the kids to the festival - they couldn't arrange a piss up in a brewery! They barely interact with them when we visit!

They would be the "memory box" type for sure if we went NC (we wont FWIW)

That's a good point Notanan. I think if there were to be a relationship with GC, concentrating on the relationship moving forward would be better than looking back at the possibilities. Answering questions well, that can be handled gently too.

Don’t ascribe things to me that I haven’t said notanan. I haven’t said you’re a paranoid gran hater. It would be a more pleasant conversation if some didn’t feel the need to be so aggressive.

Nonnie, my narcissistic mother has stated that is her internet, to include a letter with ‘the truth’.

The great news is that me, my wife and my 2 grown children will prepare my daughter with our version of ‘the truth’ that we have witnessed.

So, once the narcissist box arrives. My daughter can evaluate the opposing truths and make up her own mind what the box represents.

I’ve been attempted to be shamed here on the forum for trying to ‘control’ and ‘contaminate’ the box, and biasing my daughter against my parents, but that’s just comments from ignorant folks that have no understanding and like to suppress the truth in favor of advancing a lie.

Obviously I got my memory box as the child, although I will pass it down the safe parts to her grandchildren. IMO that memory box would have better been served as just the things and without all the little notes and labels saying "we took you on holiday every year" and look how happy you were in this photo" because, at that point it became a guilt trip, not a nice gesture. That's without the letter regretting my childhood sexual abuse and the picture of my abuser holding me as a baby despite there being no other pictures of my dad's side of the family. Just that one. And the divorce case notes with all her allegations against my father. Oh and also yes the letters between her and other people that mentioned me or my dad in any negative way. I am sure these were all included "by accident" if I were to ask. I am sure she could make it look innocent to others as its her speciality. Anyway my mum is deliberately abusive unlike most (I hope) lol

Still think The Paranoid Granny Haters is a fantastic name for a band

Shame I'm not musical...

That's come out wrong, as in unlike most situations where a relationship has broken down due to problems on either side or both sides.

Summer I don't know anyone like that, it seems rather silly to me to be harping on about any sort of past when you could be having fun with your GC

...*nonnie*, weren’t you saying earlier that children need grandparents, especially if their parent passes , so they have access to their heritage?

It’s lovely you don’t know people who go overboard on this agenda. I know far more who do, and the children suffer, and the grandparents suffer because the children aren’t remembering “properly” and the remaining parent suffers as they are told they are doing itall wrong.

Yes Summer I did but I don't see how you relate it to what I said. How does a memory box about their dead parent hurt them?

The people some of you describe are so far from my experience I have to wonder what sort of people you know?

Most of the memories would be things the parent did as a child, it could include wedding photos, photos of the children when younger, things about the parent's hobbies, musical taste, attainment certificates, maybe their jewellery etc. I don't see how lies could get into a 'memory' box.

Have you all really had these terrible experiences or is it how you would behave? I'm really struggling here to understand why anyone would do the things you say?

If I were going to make a memory box for my family after we die, it would include things about our family holidays, a stone we picked up on the beach because it was beautiful, their first cuddly toy, DH's cuff links, my jewellery, happy things. I just cannot imagine putting anything unhappy in it, why would I? I think to do such a thing would alienate the person you had made it for.