Xmas presents?

what message does it send to the children?

That they love them?

hopeful No he is not an offender of any sort, they preferred the man I was seeing before!

Offender came up on another's posters generalised comment about why adult children might object, a valid point but I assume not directed at you and your OP. I dont think anyone was and hope that noone was suggesting your partner was an offender, without any reason to from your OP

If they just prefer your previous partner that's a shame; it is your life and your right to choose who you want as a partner at this stage in your life.

I've also never understood why anyone would send gifts/cards to children whose parents they don't even get along with

Because they love them?

Really? The parents are the gatekeepers to their children. Why would anyone expose their fragile and innocent child to whatever it is that they themselves find toxic/abusive in the grandparent? It used to be unheard of for a family member to take another to court and now the legal system is over-flooded with some very entitled, controlling, and some abusive grandparents. Some grandparents yes I can see where visitation should be awarded. But the common trend is many who are suing for they can't get their way or mind their own business.

What message does it send to the children?

That they love them?

Love alone does not suffice. Treating the childrens parents with respect is what helps children grow in a safe and healthy environement. Sending gifts when you don't get along with the parents simply for the grandparent only cares about how they (mostly all about them as usual) love that child, only confuses a child and tampers with their mindset. How is this in the childs best interest to see their parents and grandparents not getting along? Children dont deserve this and grandparents and parents don't have tp get along either. So if the parents deem that you are toxic to their family you don't try to bypass them and send their children gifts, for "you love them" and "you want them to know you care." its not about you.

I can't help but wonder what would have happened had the shoe been on the other foot so to speak, if you'd estranged yourself from your AC because you preferred the person they were seeing before the one they settled down with.

They should just want you to be happy hopeful, as someone posted earlier it's not as if they're living with him too.

I hope they'll grow up and see that you have the right to choose who you have in your life just as much as they do.

Well, MovingOn, as someone who was never given the opportunity by my “gatekeeper” to meet, or even know anything about, my grandparents, I can assure you that this “fragile and innocent child” wouldn’t have been at all traumatised to open a birthday card from her grandparents.

It seems that in your world, parents are always right.

I agree with you, Gonegirl, this thread is unbelievably sad.

It's bloody Mumsnet that started all this off. angry

Any amateur geniologist disagree...

Pardon?

"would" disagree

How did all of that come out of "would"?!

If they didn't start it they did a bloomin' good job of publicising it. And encouraging each other.

Gonegirl, the idea that estrangements only ‘took off’ at the prompting of Mumsnet is frankly ridiculous. Estrangements have always happened, but more often than not hidden and swept under the rug. The same breakdowns are still taking place, it’s just that folks are more open discussing it. No one outside the relationship can ‘create’ an estrangement out of thin air.

For the abusive family cycles that have been going on for generations, we actually stand a chance to put a stop to it now. New generations seem to become so much more enlightened, I struggle to keep up. So much just isn't tolerated any more. There are so many resources available, so much more help and acceptance. I don't know if estrangment will end completely but what's happening is like drawing the poison out.

Well, MovingOn, as someone who was never given the opportunity by my “gatekeeper” to meet, or even know anything about, my grandparents, I can assure you that this “fragile and innocent child” wouldn’t have been at all traumatised to open a birthday card from her grandparents.

So were you traumatized in any way by not knowing your grandparents? You also don't know if opening cards from them would have been traumatic for you attest to noe having known them and can only speculate on an experience that never presented itself to you.

It seems that in your world, parents are always right.

Majority of the times they are. And unless they are abusive parents, its not in the grandparents place to tell them that they are wrong.

Ad for the comment of estrangement begining in mumsnet. Thats the most ludicrous statement I've heard after reading another posters comments on here. Grandparents have been cutting off their AC for centuries. ACs were cut off due to marying below their social class, marrying outside of their race, different religion, dating the same sex - I mean the list is endless. Its ok when they do it but they didn't expect their AC to do this to them for they are from the "respect comes with age generation." Respect is earned irrespective of ones age.

I can only speculate on an experience that never presented itself to me?

Seems to me you’re doing a lot of speculating on the experience of other people, me included.

And please, try to get your head round the fact that grandparents were once parents. And parents, if they’re very lucky, will one day be grandparents.

You seem to think they are two entirely different species.

As a parent my children don't know all the stuff. My older ones don't like my mother from their own experience but they don't know all the stuff.

I am my children's mother, they are not my friends, my crutches, my emotional support. Anything I have been through is not their burden to carry. So they don't know all the stuff.

For my youngest late child who was too young to remember them and so had the decision made for him, will probably never know any of the stuff. I hope he trusts that I would always do what I had to to protect him. As well as protect my own mental health because children need a happy mum.

Starblaze, that would be my expectation as well. Age appropriate information, shared wisely, without either dumping all of the ugliness on a child nor keeping them totally in the dark as to what the history was- it can be a tricky line to walk but I think most parents who end up becoming estranged from family can figure out. If children have a trusting relationship with their parents I can’t imagine an adult child being told the ‘full story’ about their grandparents would be too terribly angry, although some folks with always be prone to romanticizing the unknown; or, by the very fact that they were protected from having a relationship with a toxic or narcissistic person; can’t understand/imagine how someone could be ‘all that bad’ and underestimate the damage they were protected from. As an adult who wishes she had been protected from a toxic grandparent, I do not really understand the need romanticize a grandparent-grandchild relationship. I had one very close and loving set of grandparents and one truly awful one....I would be fine had none of them been in my life.

I can only speculate on an experience that never presented itself to me?

But isn't this exactly what you're doing when you said that you never met your grandparents, but can assure us that you wouldn’t have been at all traumatized to open a birthday card from them? Outside of pure speculation, how else would you assure this Maggiemaybe?

Seems to me you’re doing a lot of speculating on the experience of other people, me included

You did a lot of that on your own, so lets not play selective amnesia now. Or should we? Did you or did you not write that speculative comment above? And how can I speculate about you, when I don't even know you, and I'm only going by what you've said?

And please, try to get your head round the fact that grandparents were once parents

True! But they aren't, weren't, and will never ever be their grandchildrens parents OK. So please get your mind around that. Plus whats the relevance behind such a statement anyway? Also if these grandparents (who according to you were also once parents) let their abusive and toxic parents around their (now) adult children, this doesn't mean that their ACs have to follow suit and do the same. So if you were too timid to ever stand up to your own parents then that doesn't mean that you should expect your AC to do the same and not stand up to you when you're wrong.

You seem to think they are two entirely different species

You can tell me what you perceive or think, but you surely cant tell me what I'm thinking? Or are you "speculating" about me? But to answer your question yes at times "family" can act like two animals from very different species. Hence the reason as to why they are cut off in the first place.

So because you love your grandchildren despite being cut off by their parents- one finds it wise to continue sending gifts and cards via mail? I'm curious - if the parents ask you to stop does one stop or does the harrassment continue?

I hope he trusts that I would always do what I had to to protect him. As well as protect my own mental health because children need a happy mum

Exactly! And a grandparents needs should never take any priority over this.

* I do not really understand the need romanticize a grandparent-grandchild relationship*

Neither do I. Outside of any toxicity/abuse - Children need their parents more than they will ever need their grandparents.

To cut a long story short my children said I had to choose between them or the man, they are nearly 40! I didnt realise they would withdraw the children too. I'm now without children and 4 GC and no amount of begging will get them back. Heartbroken is an understatement.

This is the reason given for why the OPs adult children have cut her off. She has also confirmed that her partner is not an abuser.

OP ...I suspect you miss your AC and your grandchildren very much Your original question was whether to send presents and cards. In these circumstances I wouldn't. I would put aside things in a memory box for a possible future reconciliation. I would focus on trying to communicate with my AC if I had an opportunity. Not "harassung" them but if an opportunity arose to talk I would keep talking. I would say that I loved them and I love my partner and the 2 things are not mutually exclusive.

Would they agree to see you without your partner present, if you are willing to do that for instance?

This is painful for you (and may well be for your AC too from their perpective) and from the information you have given us, unfair and unreasonable. I hope that over time it can be sorted out for all of you

I'm not going to give any advice, because all our situations are different, as are the people involved. I can only say what my decision is, which is that I had a very close and hands on relationship with my grandchildren, and my focus is on what is best for them. I already had their cards and gifts when the sudden estrangement happened two weeks ago. Even if I hadn't, I would buy them. My priority is making sure they know my love for them hasn't changed, if I am allowed that mechanism. I will try to get their parents permission to send them, if not, I may just keep them here. I'm still mulling it over.

But please may I make an observation for those posting here that there is no right answer, only a range of opinions. A bit more humility, and a lot more kindness, that's what the world needs, especially here.

Well, I’m out. Let the ranting continue.

Good luck, OP (with this thread and your situation)

Noregrets

You are so right, none of us can really put ourselves in another persons shoes. But I agree with you, a little more kindness wouldn’t go amiss.

Good luck with your own situation, I really hope it works out for you.