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I really need to have some constructive opinions on this .My long term partner of 22 years ( we never lived together) passed away last October, and I was so consumed up with grief that I hit rock bottom over the next few months . During this awful time , my daughter decided she had enough of me ( I know I was very difficult to deal with , but couldn’t pull myself out of the hole I was in ) , then one morning, bit out of the blue , she sent me a hurtful text , saying a host of awful things to me , adding that if and when she decides to talk to me again it will be on her terms . I’d messaged her back pleading not to be like this ,that I was sorry that I’d been such a pain to deal with , that my doctor has put me on antidepressants, and to say that I love her and are very proud of her. She read it , but never replied .
She ignored Mother’s Day , not contacted me once over lockdown to see if I’m ok or want something ( I am registered disabled but I have car and try to be independent as much as possible ) , and worse still , my 68 th birthday was last week and was totally ignored by her .
I have mixed feelings about all this , because I have couple friends who’s daughters have done the same to them , also read many posts on here of similar situations. I feel I cannot go through rest of my life feeling so hurt and upset , wishing and hoping she will contact me , and , if and when she does , I know I’ll be walking on eggshells as be worrying if she will do this to me again. I’ve not been brought up to be doing any of this sort thing to my parents , if we have an issue , we talk it through , to resolve things , never to cut them out of ones life , and be so hurtful and disrespectful. My Mum would be mortified by this behaviour, so would my beloved partner . I didn’t raise my daughter to be so heartless. My son is very hurt also , saying that his family are falling apart .
With all this emotions going on, it’s her birthday coming up in couple weeks time , and I’m at a loss as to wether to send her a card , part of me says yes , I should, ( but feel she will rip it up ) but then I feel that I don’t want to , so maybe that way she will hopefully feel some hurt to know how it feels .
I’m in state of limbo , and would appreciate thoughts on this one. Oh , and I’d like to add, that I love my daughter dearly , have always been proud of her , and miss her terribly.
HolyHannah - no, I don’t believe she understands what she has said at all because she has essentially given the reason for the estrangement. She is not allowing her daughter to be the “driver” in her own life to such an extent that her daughter has had no alternative other than to shut her out completely.
Rhinestone -- I am happy to answer any question(s) about my abuse and experiences.
I wouldn't say I was physically abused (as in beaten for the sake of 'that') but my 'mom' certainly hit when she was angry which is unhealthy at best and crossing into abuse for sure. When you add how she mentally beat me down as well, that is a recipe for a depressed/suicidal child.
As Starblaze once said, "Everything an abusive parent does is abusive." to which I agree. It's cumulative.
GG65 -- "She is not allowing her daughter to be the “driver” in her own life to such an extent that her daughter has had no alternative other than to shut her out completely." -- My thought exactly.
Then when someone like me says, "From what you wrote/admitted to it's pretty clear your mentality is the problem..." I am the 'bad guy'.
"I don't know WHYYY I am estranged!" Then says something like that. Me -- "You might not know why but your 'child' and I do. Keep doing what you are doing and keep expecting the same result."
“I don't know WHYYY I am estranged”
I like to think I have been a good parent. I have good relationships with my children. I am proud of them. I love them deeply.
However, if any of them were to stop contact with me and provide no reason for it, I could think of many reasons, on my part, as to why this could be.
I am not perfect. I have made mistakes. I have yelled at times when I have been under stress. I did not prioritise my older children when my younger children were born as much as I would have liked to or should have done. I could have been more present and less preoccupied with work and household chores. My list of parenting mistakes is not exhaustive. There is much I would have done differently, given the chance. Such is life...
Being willing and able to see our children’s childhoods from their perspective is key. Accountability to our children is key.
HolyHannah - I think your experience of being the “bad guy” is less to do with you actually being the bad guy, and more to do with not being able or willing to see our own faults and mistakes.
It is painful to acknowledge that you could have been a better parent. Some see, some will not. There are none so blind...
GG65 -- If everyone thought like you did and talked to their AC the way you just spoke, I doubt estrangement would be an 'epidemic'.
I am not asking my 'mom' to fall on a sword and admit to "every little parenting mistake" and beg forgiveness or anything else. It would be nice if she admit to just one thing. ANYTHING that doesn't keep her in her delusion that she was 'perfect'.
Even something as simple as, "I have yelled at times when I have been under stress. I did not prioritise my older children when my younger children were born as much as I would have liked to or should have done. I could have been more present and less preoccupied with work and household chores." can at least open a dialogue.
"I didn't do anything to deserve estrangement." makes an AC say, "Not from your POV. And since you can't/won't see that from mine, you did? Bye."
As I have said, maybe I'm a 'good' mom and maybe not. All I know is I'm a whole lot more self-reflective then my own 'mom' so at least I am doing that right.
Having caught up today with last night's conversation about hearsay, I'm surprised to see a post that's based on what someone has read, and the assumptions being made.
We know nothing about this mother. We don't know what she said prior to the section that has been presented here, or what she said after wards. We don't know if the section we've been given has been taken out of context or even where it was taken from.
We would have to know a lot more before we could reasonably judge that she has not given her D sufficient autonomy, to 'drive' her own life so was given no alternative but be cut out of her D's life completely.
I am not asking my 'mom' to fall on a sword and admit to "every little parenting mistake" and beg forgiveness or anything else. It would be nice if she admit to just one thing. ANYTHING that doesn't keep her in her delusion that she was 'perfect’
No, nor do I believe this is the objective of any EAC when they try to open a dialogue with their parent(s) in an attempt to understand, resolve and heal from their experiences in the past.
Although it may feel that way, it is not an attack on the parent. It is an attempt to move forward with the parent.
Let’s face it, no one likes being wrong. It is an uncomfortable feeling for anyone. However, some people cannot acknowledge their mistakes. Not even “one thing”. It is a defence mechanism that they have developed. To admit to any wrong doing would be psychologically shattering. Even when faced with overwhelming evidence, those defence mechanisms will distort reality to make it less threatening - resulting in complete and utter denial. It is actually easier for a person to let go of a relationship, even if it is with their own child, than it is to acknowledge their mistakes, any mistake. And they will certainly not be able to take any responsibility for the ending of the relationship (estrangement) either.
I am so sorry you have experienced this with your mum HolyHannah. I can only imagine how frustrating and upsetting that has been.
Still waiting on a reply on the reconciliation- how does that happen?
Pantglas2
Still waiting on a reply on the reconciliation- how does that happen?
I don’t know how common reconciliations are. I do know of a person who “reconciled” after taking pity on their parent in their old age. I would imagine that they also happen when issues have been resolved or due to unresolved fear, obligation and guilt. There are many possibilities.
I’m not sure what kind of answer you are looking for?
For me
Accountanility
Counselling, for her or joint (I've done it)
Measurable positive change
Basically what I asked for before estranging
Actually my question was initially for HolyHannah but happy to hear all thoughts on the subject.
In my case, none of Starblaze instances applied but we’ve gotten there anyway... go figure!
Pantglas2
Actually my question was initially for HolyHannah but happy to hear all thoughts on the subject.
In my case, none of Starblaze instances applied but we’ve gotten there anyway... go figure!
There are many possibilities.
Pantglass2
1. Dial back expectations on what you think the relationship will be. Let it grow organically, do not go from 0 to 100 just because both parties are talking again
If it is only coffees once a month in the beginning for a year, it is fine.
There is no timeline or standard path to folllow
2. Both parties agree on and follow boundaries of the relationship, to ensure success
3. Both parties acknowledge mistakes on both ends and agree not to have the same mistakes- a consistent change on behaviour must happen
4. Listen to each other and compromise
5. Do not think that a lot of time has been lost during the estrangement and need to catch up to recover
6. No means no. Do not push if you do not get the answer you were looking for
7. Admit reconciliation will not give you the relationship you crave and hope for
That is a very brief summary
Pantglas2
Actually my question was initially for HolyHannah but happy to hear all thoughts on the subject.
In my case, none of Starblaze instances applied but we’ve gotten there anyway... go figure!
Was there a need to say it like that?
My mum is/was abusive
BUT
Actually, counselling, being accountable and being a better mum probably wouldn't hurt any normal person.
I’m pretty low maintenance (and always have been) and went with Hithere’s No 1 - we’re going from strength to to strength on an annual basis!
Moral is - don’t look back, dissect/over analyse/complicate/discuss or the donkey will be without its hind legs and unable to move forward....
Pantglas2 -- I think true reconciliation rarely happens. As GG65 said I think there can be a return to a semi-FOG, so to speak, but that hardly means anything has been "resolved".
"However, some people cannot acknowledge their mistakes. Not even “one thing”. It is a defence mechanism that they have developed. To admit to any wrong doing would be psychologically shattering. Even when faced with overwhelming evidence, those defence mechanisms will distort reality to make it less threatening - resulting in complete and utter denial. It is actually easier for a person to let go of a relationship, even if it is with their own child, than it is to acknowledge their mistakes, any mistake." -- 100% that.
"Although it may feel that way, it is not an attack on the parent. It is an attempt to move forward with the parent." -- And that is what EAC want. To move forward. I have learned/she has demonstrated that is not what my 'mom' wants. She wants her compliant little Scapegoat back and not a healthy/mature relationship with a fellow adult. It's gross, repulsive and never going to happen.
"It is actually easier for a person to let go of a relationship, even if it is with their own child, than it is to acknowledge their mistakes, any mistake. And they will certainly not be able to take any responsibility for the ending of the relationship (estrangement) either." -- My 'mom' and her "I've tried absolutely nothing to improve my relationship with Hannah and I'm all out of ideas..." 'attitude' is part of why she is estranged but that is nothing to do with her in her mind.
Yes. To say dealing with her mentality was "frustrating and upsetting". I try to keep the true words to myself but if there is one word that truly fits? INSANE. And to be clear -- MY definition of 'insane' is -- "The absolute lack of rational/logical thinking." which totally describes her.
Again, I haven't asked for much at all lol
Be sorry
Learn how to get on with help
Make an effort to not repeat past behaviour
That's it in its simplest form... Again not hard lol
I have done all those things, she hasn't. We remain estranged because of it.
I would, on the grounds that two wrongs don't make a right.
When will I learn not to try to force a response?
Just sent my ED an email (CC’d with her friend) with an update re how we are doing, with some photos of the house we are moving to, etc. I email now and then, but never get a response. Ever, from my ED. Usually I get some kind of response from her friend, who never gives any specific info re my ED. To add to the uselessness of it all, I wrote “it would be nice if I knew you were reading my emails!” Now, I will be checking my emails pointlessly for a response, which I won’t get.
I just read this on another post, written by a very smart woman (sorry, can’t remember the name): “To me, one truth is that we lose our role as moms and become relics of the past, so our kids can become the drivers in their own lives.”
Wow. What a great way of looking at it. I believe this is what my ED wants. She has basically severed our relationship, so she can be her own “driver.” I’m the dumb one who keeps hitting her head against a brick wall.
www.rejectedparents.net/forums/topic/feeling-stupid/
OurKid1 -- "I would, on the grounds that two wrongs don't make a right." What do you mean by that?
One last thing: forgiveness doesn't mean you forget what happened
The past will not be erased and will still be a factor to consider.
Trust has to be regained. It may not be a doable goal, depending on the circumstances
The past defines the future.
In my case, with my CO parents, I would still be on guard for a long time (aka distant and cold as they have called me plenty of times).
Protecting myself and my family would still be my main goal and any exposure to my CO parents would be measured based on trust
HolyHannah and Starblaze. Do your parent want a reconciliation with you or did or do they just want to be in their grandchildren’s lives?
Interesting that reconciliation only seems to happen one way according to some and not countless ways (similar to estrangement actually!).
I’m content for it to have happened in any way that DD was happy with.....we will survive this with good will on BOTH sides.
Sparkling -- The message I had relayed to me (true or not) was that they would be more then happy to have contact with Our children outside of a relationship with husband and/or I. That came from 'both sides'.
Pantglas2 -- "Interesting that reconciliation only seems to happen one way according to some and not countless ways (similar to estrangement actually!)." -- Who said that?
I am back to what GG65 said, "I’m not sure what kind of answer you are looking for?"
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