SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

hugsghelp. I've posted this many times in the past but will do so again, because when it comes to estrangement the only way to win the game is to stop playing.

Madgran is spot on when she says it must be hard for you knowing that your ES is feeding your DD lies. It is, it's hard and it's frightening. You're afraid that they might believe what they're being told. I remember how scared I was that we'd lose our DS too.

Your DD is in a difficult position, this is her brother after all but your friend. TBH your friends behaviour has left a rather unpleasant taste in my mouth.

In your friend's position, I may say I'd heard from your ES but certainly wouldn't say we'd "had lots of chats". During my next conversation if she were my friend, I would tell her that my ES was telling his sister that she gets on his nerves and he wishes she'd leave him alone.

As she's rightly said, "every story has 2 sides" and it might be good for her to remember that it's not just stories that have 2 sides; some people have 2 faces.

I have tears in my eyes just thinking about what I'm about to type, but your post made me think about it Whatdayisit.

I've held my wonderful husband on more than one occasion as he's wept, his entire body wracked with the pain that our son's estrangement has caused him. Each time it breaks my heart.

I still feel angry for what he's done, the pain he has caused, the lies and taking away our only GC but what makes me more angry than anything else is what he did to his father.

Even if I could forgive him for what he's done to me, I don't know if I could ever forgive him for what he's done to his father; my soul mate, my best friend and the love of my life.

You're right smiles it does trigger a fear that I will lose other people because of the lies. But liars usually trip themselves up in the end.

I've seen my husband's shattered dreams. His bewilderment that the son we tried so hard to support, living a life that we are not allowed to be a part of. I feel anger on his behalf and I know he does on mine. I feel for you smiles, for Mrs S, and for all the lovely people and their families on this thread. Every one given a pain they could never have imagined. It breaks my heart that some of our loved ones have less regard for that pain than the family we have made in a tiny corner of the internet.

Smiles my heart goes out to you and Mr S. I am glad my husband isn't here. He worshipped both the children and always wanted to be a grandad. My son hasn't just said awful things about me but also wrote his sister a vile email the same time he did me in May last year. He has cut out all our side of the family.

My son is a HGV and my brother was until he retired early in November to be my sister in law's carer she has MS and unfortunately getting worse. Because my brother knew what company my son worked for. Every time my brother was at a truck stop and saw a company lorry he went to see who the driver was. He always said don't worry I wouldn't have hit him but asked what the xxxx he was playing at.

All my grandson's will know is one side of the family. I only hope he tells them about his dad. He was the love of my life . He had horrible parents and my son knows that. He didn't know his grandfather as he died when he was 8 months old but he knew his grandmother. He knows what a bad mom, mother in law and grandmother is . So why has he treated me as if I am like her?

I sometimes think this wouldn't have happened if my husband had lived as he wouldn't have put up with the lies and being let down by our son for years and he wouldn't have our up with my daughter in law's bad manners.

But I will never know. I miss my husband so much and just need him to hold me and make it all better. But it can never be.

But I am lucky my daughter and son in law have said I will never lose them and my daughter tells me often how much my grandson's adore me.

At least my son isn't telling other family lies about me . I am glad we have zero contact as I would rather have it than constant abuse.

I couldn't go through this without Smiles and all of you and for that I am grateful to everyone of you. ❤️

I should say I know how heart wrenching it is to have your husband crying in your arms. I had that after his cancer diagnosis for months . But had to be brave and couldn't let my tears flow until he was asleep. Our children don't know this nor the fact that when he became terminal and woke in the night in agony he made me hold a pillow over his face so he could scream and the children not hear until the morphine sent him to sleep.

Things that haunt me to this day. Things he never wanted the children to know. Which I have kept locked inside me.

"It breaks my heart that some of our loved ones have *less regard for that pain than the family we have made in a tiny corner of the internet*". That's such a lovely post hugshelp, especially the last bit which is why I put it in bold. Thank you.

Oh Whiff; "I miss my husband so much and just need him to hold me and make it all better. But it can never be" x.

I wasted too much time waiting, hoping and trying for things to be different, it was a waste of time. They manipulate you out of their lives. I would advise anyone, who has been rejected without a reason given or a way to put things right, to make a fresh start and look outwards, cultivate friendships and interests, don’t let them define you. If you still have your partner that’s wonderful, you can do it together, there was just you two at the start of this journey, before you had children. I feel a different person now, it has taken its toll. Smileless is a very good example of changing her attitude to her estrangement. It’s an inspiration. Like Whiff and others alone, it’s doubly hard but in a way glad he wasn’t put through it. Can’t wait to start holidays and my interests again when we can freely mingle.

Wonderful post Sparkling. ?

Well said sparkling

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hope you're OK Sparkling x

Where are you Smileless? Do hope you and MrS are well.

Hi Allsorts and all my friends. We've been away in our motor home so no internet. I meant to post on Wednesday morning that I wouldn't be around for a few days, but due to the hive of activity preparing to get away, I forgot.

We arrived at our lodge yesterday and are here until Sunday. Had a great few days, very hot so thankful for our little fridge which passed the test and kept everything cool and fresh.

The site was packed over the weekend and there was a moment when it all became too much seeing 2nd and 3rd generations all together, especially a brother and sister who looked to be the ages our GC are, playing near and around our awning.

We had a late night last night as a lady here's dog got out and for 3.5 hours we were trying to get hold of him. He had clearly been spooked by something as although some got to within touching distance, he kept running off.

Still rather quiet here this morning and we don't know if he found his way back home. Felt awful going to bed at mid night but there was nothing else we could do, and we think that a dozen people going around with torches and calling for him, was probably doing more harm than good.

We eventually got his owner to stay at her caravan to sit quietly and wait for him to return. She's been here for 6 years so he knows where 'home' is.

Poor woman was beside herself, she lost her husband last year and her dog's become even more important to her. Fingers crossed that he's back. I'll let you all know when we find out.

Enjoy the wonderful weather and take care x.

Have a good break smileless Hope the dog makes it home. Poor woman.

I think l have made a mistake and started a thread. Should I have posted here ?
I saw others stories here and felt l had to wait until they has sufficient replies.

Hi Nicegranny, you haven't made a mistake by starting a thread and I've responded to you on there.

Yes, the dog is safe and sound at home Granniesunite and you can feel the relief all over the site.

Please could I ask a question as I'm too nervous to start it separate for people who haven't met me and might give me both barrels. Is it normal for if my mum says everything I have said was me lying for her to just be nasty to me? If I thought everything I was saying was true, she would want to be kind and listen and get me help instead of being nasty wouldn't she? That's what a good mum does even if they want to defend themselves really, they would just be kind to their child even if they were innocent as something must be very wrong for a child to make up a lot of abuse? I'm having help with counselling again as I was very unwell and it made my thinking very hard and this is what the counsellor said to me. That all the angry nasty mesages from my mum shows that she is guilty as she would talk kindly to a person she thought was ill or being taken away from her somehow. Is that right? Do people talk kindly to their estranged children or is it hard to keep a lid on feelings? I want my counsellor to be a good one and get some real help to put my life back together.

Armadillo I don't know about if your mom is feeling guilty. And would be kind of she if knew your where ill.

My son knew I was waiting to have a bubble echo on my heart as an echo showed a problem. And he still sent me the vile email and letter. Proving he didn't give a flying fig that I probably had a heart condition. As it turns out the bubble echo showed at the age of 62 I was born with a heart defect . It's not a hole but something else and will be having more tests but Covid put everything on hold. But it's not causing me problems so I am happy to wait.

This is the son who in January last year took me to see my new neurologist and was so great explaining to my consultant about how I have gotten worse over the years etc. The same son who in November before had to dash me to A&E because my seizures where out of control. And in the May had taken me to St George's hospital in London. To see another specialist.

The same son who called me vindictive and manipulative and didn't want my influence any near him or his family.

So in my case even though I have been ill for 33 years since he was 6 months old and his sister 4. He has made it perfectly clear he doesn't care one bit about me one bit.

I have only ever loved,cared and protected my children. Helped where I can in anyway I can. And that has extended to my son and daughter in law and grandsons.

My daughter,son in law and grandson's love and care for me . We helped eachother the best we can. I try not to be a worry to them but know at times I do especially when I am ill. I am lucky to have them.

But I have come to terms with the fact my son does not care if I live or die. And is a horrible thing to come to terms with.

I know it does not answer your questions but this is what has happened to me. Don't know if it helps you.

.

I don't think I have ever been nasty to my mum really. She just views it as nasty when I say she has hurt me and she views me as cruel because she doesn't see her grandchildren but that's not my choice. I don't think me explaining what she has done is being nasty and neither does this counsellor which is good. I am sorry you get nasty messages when you are ill. My mum knew I was unwell but they didn't find the cause of the issues for a long time and she thought I was a hypochondriac. It's sad but I think I would have had this sorted a lot sooner if she hadn't done that. Coronavirus did not help either as appointments kept being cancelled or taking a lot of time and I could have died which is scary but I am finally getting treatment. I want to sort this out now so I can be healthy again. I am so sorry your son has treated you badly when you have done your best and faced terrible issues. I don't have any answers why family members can not love us but even not loving someone is not an excuse to be nasty is it?

Even without such callous treatment in the face of ongoing health issues as you have experienced Whiff Mr. S. and I have believed for some time that our ES doesn't care if we live or die.

His very estrangement of us and the taking of our only GC is evidence enough. That is bad enough; what your son has done to you is horrendous.

Mr. S. went to visit his mum this morning, came back very upset as she looks so awful and even though she opened her eyes momentarily and looked at him, he didn't think she realised it was home.

We've been told that she is as of now, being sedated. Not long now I think.

Smiles my thoughts are with you and Mr S. His mom would have known he was there and she would have known it was him. I wish her a peaceful passing . It's hard to lose a parent even if they have had a long life. But as hard as it as you know with loosing your own mom not so long ago it's her time. We never want the ones we love to suffer. And as hard as it is and in the days and weeks to come try and remember the happy, silly funny things his mom did. And it will make him smile.

He has you and that love will get him through. Having the other half of yourself by your side sees you through the darkest days as you both know already through your son's behaviour.

Having the one person in the whole world you knows you inside and out is a prescious and wonderful thing. I know you cherish eachother and have weathered difficult times and will face whatever the future has in store for you together. As the 2 of you make a whole and the love you share will see you through . ?

I thinks perhaps Whiff, your son could not cope with your health issues and his families demands, so something in his eyes had to give, it was easier to cut off. My instance, different circumstances, enormously different lifestyles, I on the edge of it, then tipped of it, we are almost like strangers now. L I have had to learn acceptance, can’t change what is, but it hurts like mad when you least expect it, miss what was and can’t be again. My love won’t change but expectation have.

Thank you Whiff for your lovely post, Mr. S. thanks you toox

Armadillo, it does sound as though your mum is being unsupportive but we don't know what is in the messages between you or what is going on in her head. It's possible that just as you think you haven't ever been nasty to her, she thinks the same. Maybe she's bad at communicating and doesn't realise how it comes across. You will both have your own perspectives and it is obviously difficult for you to see one another's. Maybe she was brought up on tough love and it's the only kind she knows. I have no way of knowing. Is there any way you could do relationship counselling together?

I am very sorry about Mr S's mum smiles. I hope that her passing is peaceful for her and bearable for you all. I know the strength of your relationship and of the woman by his side will see him through. Sending loving thoughts to you both.

Reading all of these painful heart breaking situations l realise that there’s no way back to an estranged son.
Your deeply honestly written stories so beautifully explained exposing such pain is making me cry for you all not just myself.
As l write this through sobbing and crying feeling as though my heart will burst l want to beg my son to speak to me on the other hand lm so angry with him for manipulating this breakdown of our relationship. I feel it’s what he had to do to keep his fiancé from always having a go at him. I can see that this pain will never stop and l don’t know how to manage it.
My daughter has been cut off too and I don’t want to burden her with my pain. She’s in HK and has a newborn plus three girls all under 5. I tell my friends l am ok because I don’t want to alienate them with constant conversations about this.
I live alone and am already a bit of a loner lm not a sociable person only when I have to. This feels akin to empty nest.
Because my daughter went to boarding school , university then came travel encouraged by me that she would be adventurous we are used to being apart but we have always had close contact.
Why now am l feeling guilty because she wants me to pack up and go and live with her and her family in HK ? Travel permitting.
She’s 6 years older than her brother and l wonder, did l put more focus on him , does he resent her for not being in the country when l had a breakdown years ago? Is it that my illness had been far too much for him feeling perhaps responsibility towards me and now he needs to make a life without me in his ? I couldn’t help what was happening to me because my situation was out of my control due to trusting my long term ex.
I had reluctantly agreed to mortgage my mortgage free house for a business we set up and due to him having his own agenda l lost my home and my mind.
I’m trying to see all the bad choices I made to make my son not want to be with me.
Some authors of estrangement books blame parents and l want to take responsibility if l did help cause this.
Then put an insecure girlfriend in the mix and she just topples the relationship.
How will I return to normal life? How can I be happy?
I tell myself that as long as my son is having a happy life and he’s healthy l should be grateful. He’s alive and well trying to make his way in the world and I should be satisfied that I did a good job to some degree.
But still my heart breaks.

Smileless So sorry to hear about Mr Ss Mum. If she is sedated then it should be a gentle time of passing.

Nicegranny It is good to take responsibility but to do that you have to know what you are taking responsibility for. I am sure that what you describe will have impacted on both your children to varying degrees and will have been hard for them and for you.

But IF the difficulties in your relationship have arisen since the arrival of his fiancee then maybe you need to look at what, if anything, you have done that might have caused the problem for her and for your son that you can take responsibility for. Think about any behaviours, incidents, comments from THEIR perspective. It might help you to either:

a) see and accept at least partly where they are coming from

OR

b) accept that this is not your responsibility but his choice within his circumstances in his relationship

If you can draw any conclusions from the above considerations, then it might help you to move forward, still painfully but still forward, rather than circular.