SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

She hasn't said if she thinks I've been nasty in message, just that I am a liar and that what I said didn't happen which makes it hard to talk about together. She won't do counselling as she has said that they will believe my lies as I am too good at it. She says that I am cruel for estranging me and my boys but I have only estranged myself and they are adults so not my choice. She has said I am selfish, cruel, a disappointment, a bad mum, a bitch, an embarrassment, that all her friends and my family don't like me. If I tell her she has hurt me she says I'm just doing it for attention if I get upset and laughs at me. She says I waste doctors time if I am ill, that my house is dirty when I don't think it is, just never says anything nice or positive really. She tells people that I am mentally ill when I don't have anything except anxiety which I am treated for. She tells people not to invite me to things because I have a drinking issue but I don't even drink really. I only found out from my cousin because I saw him out and he offered me a drink and I asked for a coke. The counsellor said her messages were nasty and its gaslighting and guilt trips. I would put them on here but someone said I shouldn't put identifying things on here as not fair to my mum. I have been unwell and so I have now gone back in counselling but I know we are all human and say things we don't mean but the counsellor said if my mum thought I had made up all my issues with her it would be a logical conclusion that I was mentally ill and so she would not send me nasty messages and she wouldn't send them to me only on my birthday or Christmas day and that's a deliberate attempt to ruin my day. She would send things talking about estrangement at other times and just a nice message on special occasions. It's just all really hard for me to take in as the counsellor sees it as worse than I thought and I am in tears after. I am sorry for everyone who has a family member like this it's just so painful.

Armadillo words can not express how I feel . I don't know how a mother can turn against her child. You must do what is best for you and your family. She has made it clear how she feels. You need to look after yourself and let your mother go.

My husband had a mother and father who didn't care about him but didn't tell lies about him the way your mom has with you.

But when he died she denied she ever had a son or had 2 grandchildren. It wasn't grief she was just evil and a horrible woman he's father was as bad . But he loved them but didn't like them but he never gave up on them. No matter how they treated him and then me and the children. His dad died when our children were young 4 and 8 months.

My husband asked me to look after her after he died and as much as I hated her I did. As she got older her behaviour got worse. She hadn't got and form of dementia so she had no excuse for her wickedness. My in laws treated my family just as bad.

Allsorts 4 years ago I had jaundice caused by 2 of my tablets. When my gastrologist discharged me after 5 months he told me I could have died. I knew I was ill but didn't think I was that bad. I had promised my children after my husband's death to always tell them when I was ill. I kept that promise so my son knew they nearly lost me then.

I have been ill since he was 6 months old. He will be 34 next month. Since my husband died 17 years ago I have been as independent as possible. I depend on no one for the roof over my head and food on my plate. When I moved here he came every week with my 2 grandson's they had at the time. Had lunch and spent about 4 hours with me. That continued until Covid. He still phoned ,texted,sent photos and videos of the boys. My last photo of them was 17th April 2020.

If it was a choice between his family or me he should have told on my birthday. Yes I would have been upset but would have understood. As I have always stood by him.

My brother thinks my daughter in law is jealousy of my relationship with my son and the fact my son always told me how excited my grandson's got when they realised they where coming here.

Why she should be jealous I don't understand. Her mother lives with them and has done since her marriage broke up. Must be 6-7 years now. I got on well with her. Her mother looked after the children while they both worked. I have never been jealous of anyone.

When I lived over 100 miles away I was always glad both my children had in law's close by. I get on very well with my daughter's in laws and their daughter and her family.

What my daughter in law and my son forget. I am his mother and grandmother to their now 3 boys and nothing they can do will change that. Mine and his father's DNA is in the 4 of them. That is a fact . One day my grandson's will want to know why they have only one Nannie and no grandfather's. They will also get to an age that they can't control their actions or thoughts.

Interesting years ahead.

A warm welcome to our support thread Nicegranny.

You know, you can drive yourself mad with all the if, buts and maybe's. Dissecting the entire life of an AC who estranges you, trying to find out why. What you did that you shouldn't have done, what you didn't do that you should have done. What you said that you shouldn't have said, what you didn't say that you should have said.

The only one who can answer your questions is the one who has estranged you but more often than not, they don't even give you the opportunity to ask.

We are responsible for how we raise our children. We are not necessarily responsible for the adults they become and for the choices they make.

I wont say the pain eventually goes away because it never does but in my experience, its intensity does reduce in frequency. It will for you too I'm certain.

The road ahead is a long and difficult one. There will be days when you feel you've made progress and others when you feel you are right back where you started.

Now you're here, you'll be among friends who will rejoice with you on those good days and support you during the bad ones.
We're all on the same journey, some are further along than others but regardless of how far we've come, we still need the support and understanding of the friends we've made here.

You're not alone.

Oh goodness Armadillo, I have no idea what's going on in your mum's head but that is not normal or acceptable. Whenever someone protests that others will 'believe your lies' I am convinced they know on some level that what you are saying is true but have deluded themselves. All you can do is look after yourself, get the health treatment and counselling you need, and hope your mum somehow finds whatever it is she needs. Though I doubt she knows she needs it.

Thank you for your kind words I know it must be hard for parents in your situations to get a mum like mine. On one hand behaviours like hers probably give others a bad name but on the other hand people think all mums are good and love their children so it's a strange situation. I wish I could have had a supportive mum so it's a comfort to know that some mums on here can be supportive to me. I would not have estranged a mum I could be strong enough to be around yet I am stronger without her and can put up with horrible people, just couldn't have barriers with her and she always got to me.

m.i.l. died last night at 9.30. Mr. S. is OK, thankful that she's now at peace. He knew it would be soon having seen her on Wednesday and I'm so glad that he got to see her, even though she was unresponsive.

He's had a message of condolence from ES which wasn't unexpected as he sent me one when I lost mum last September; strange though isn't it, to speak of happy memories he'll treasure with the GM he cut out of his life.

Dear smileless l am sorry for your loss my condolences to you and your husband. At least now we will be in a better place to give our loved ones proper funerals which l hope isn’t too upsetting for you. I do think as we get older we are more excepting of life and death and hoping a person had a good life.
It is odd that your son would bother to send condolences as he had not had contact with his grandmother. Perhaps he does have a conscience after all. Trying to fathom our ES is a mystery to me. ?

I'm sorry for your loss smileless.

Sorry for you loss smileless. It’s a difficult time for you both so soon after your own mum.

So sorry for your loss smiles.
Thinking of you both.

Smiles and Mr S I am sorry for your loss. At least he got to see his mom one last time. She is at peace now. Just try and think of all the happy funny things his mom did . There are bound to be a lot. Things that he hasn't thought about for years.

I really am not good at writing condolences. Never know the right words. But really all I want to do is give you both a big hug.

My thoughts are with you both. ?

Armadillo, your mom sounds a narcissist, probably a lot of people are not taken in by her. You are right in distancing as there is no reasoning with her.
Smileless, I know your husband was very fond of his mom and it’s a great loss to him, you have both lost your mothers over a very short time, very sad.
Whiff I wonder if one day your son will regret his words to you, the trouble is words can hurt so much and you can’t be unheard.

Sorry to hear of your loss Smileless I do hope Mr .S. is okay.
It's not that long since you lost your mother also and you will be able to comfort him.

I expect ES sent the condolence message probably out of respect although you are right to say how can he write he will treasure happy memories of his GM when he cut her out of his life.

I just have not been posting on here recently as mainly all I try to do is keep mind and body together and push worries and thoughts of my D and the GC from my mind.
I received a phone call from D last week as I have not heard from her since the Social Services carry on. She wants me to have contact with the GC and yet she began to lecture me on all my failings my treatment of her and the fact I must be happy now as I have a new GC. Nothing much changes with her she certainly knows how to spread the love and leaves me wondering if I am so useless why she bothers phoning to ask me to visit.

Take care of yourselves Smileless and Mr.S. in your time of mourning your loss.

Nicegranny forgot to say you have joined a wonderful thread. I read the one you started. And am sorry for all you are going through. This thread has been a life line to me. And seen me through my darkest days. It will see you through them to. .

Smiles started a wonderful , supportive and safe place for us. And with her help and all the others here. I have come to terms with my son's behaviour and while I love and miss him and my 3 grandson's I am glad to have silence between us. I would rather that than constant abuse from him and my daughter in law. What some parents and in Armadillo's case mom put them through is truly awful.

I was just reading about a Russian couple who have 11 children. One born by the wife the others by surragetes . Says she is addicted to babies and wants 105. They are multi millionaires. Just wait until they are adults and wonder how many will turn on them.

whiff l can feel the support already from everyone and the lovely welcome l received from smileless has given me the confidence to divulge more of my situation. Most of these stories seem to sadly end in exactly the same way no matter what we try to do. I had been concerned that by opening up and revealing details could identify me but the pain l feel is so immense that I understand why others have given details and so done the same.
I have always been a bit of a “bolter” and straight to the point in my approach. Once my fingers get burned l don’t usually return but where my son is concerned the door will always be open. It’s highly unlikely that he will have a relationship with me on the terms of its just him but where it was so obvious that his fiancé always had a problem with me l don’t ever want to be involved with her. It is still my hope that he listens to the doubts he has had about her and doesn’t marry her but time will tell.

I am so sorry to read of the loss of your m.i.l. Smileless, I cannot say any more than others already have, on here we are all of an age where we are going through or have been through such tragic loss, and we understand how you and Mr S feel.
As for the message from your ES, to me it is a positive thing that he has acknowledged the loss of his GM, there is a message in that.

Thanks everyone for your kind messages.

We're back home from our lodge now and will find out when the funeral will be tomorrow and whether or not we'll still be able to down to Portsmouth as planned.

Mr. S. is bearing up bless him.

Hi Smileless, I thought about your ES contacting you, how did he know of both his grandmothers deaths if he has no contact? He seems to know what’s going on in your lives and to be interested he must deep down care. I know it’s not a lot of help considering his treatment of you. It surely must play on his mind how ill his father was.

Smiles you and Mr S love for eachother will get through the death of his mom. You know exactly how he feels as it's not that long ago you lost your own mom.

I am afraid since my son decision not to want a mother. I have development a suspicious mind. If my mom was alive and he contacted me after her death I would automatically think does he think she left him some money.

Your son may have contacted you after the death of your mom's because he cares . But I am playing devils advocate here. After your mom's death did he contact you again about the funeral etc. I know the Covid rules where strict at the time.

I am not meaning to be rude in anyway and feel free to ignore me.

I don't want to add extra grief to what you are already feeling.

He's in contact with his brother Allsorts, so that's why he'd have known.

TBH I feel his email when my mum died, and the one he sent his dad are an unwanted intrusion into our lives. Had we not got as far as we have, had we still been vulnerable and harbouring a vein hope that one day we'd reconcile, both of these could have given a false hope that he was making tentative steps to having contact with us again.

As I don't believe for one moment this is the case, I think it's cruel and probably done to ease his conscience.

So, you're not the only one with a suspicious mind Whiff. ES didn't ask me about mum's funeral and neither of us imagine for one moment that he'd turn up to Mr. S.'s mum's.

All of the family have been estranged by him so wouldn't I'm sure be happy to see him there. Could make Harry's reception from the RF at PP's funeral look decidedly friendly by comparison!!

We're hoping to find out the date of the funeral later today. It's always a strange time isn't it between the death and the funeral, a feeling of being in no man's land.

smileless l hope that yours and Mr S’s mother’s had both had happy and long lives it’s the only one thought that I feel we can console ourselves with. l hope you don’t get upset with the fact your son sent the email. It must feel like adding insult to injury.
Perhaps your ES thinks that such devoted and loving parents are still grieving for him.
Condolences l think can come for many reasons and when the reason is not genuine care or politeness one can only feel that it’s pure selfishness.
It is intrusive and your ES doesn’t realise that he is no longer the centre of your universe.
You are so brave and strong l don’t know if I will ever be able to be such a survivor but I’m going to have a blooming good go at it thanks to you and everyone else here on gransnet. ???

"Perhaps your ES thinks that such devoted and loving parents are still grieving for him" you could be right Nicegranny and if we were, what an awful thing to do, as any non abusive contact from him could so easily give us false hope of a possible reconciliation.

Thank goodness we don't see it that way.

Our mum's did have good lives but both were unavoidably negatively affected for the last 7/8 years because of the estrangement.

You're brave and strong, we all are. You're a survivor Nicegranny. Every single day you somehow manage to get through, no matter how well or badly, you've survived another day.

So sorry for the loss of your MiL, Smileless and for the intrusion of the email from your ES who I imagine is trying to do the right thing but woefully unaware of the effect of his behavior.

I have to admit, that if I heard from someone I am estranged from I might hope there might be more so I applaud your strength and resolve Smileless.

Thank you OnwardandUpward.

Nicegranny don't put yourself down. It took strength and courage to post here and start a thread. There are enough to in this world to put you down. Smiles is wonderful the strength and courage she showed starting this thread all those years is amazing. Without her and all of you I couldn't have got through the last year and a bit.

I thought for decades I wasn't strong but when I think of all the things that I have overcome I realised I am strong otherwise I couldn't have done all I have. I do have weak moments but I get through them. I realise how lucky I am . Over the years especially going to different hospitals and hearing people's stories I am grateful for what I have had and have in my life. To be honest if life was easy it would be boring.

Life shapes us into the people we are today. Only wish I had known a lot of things years ago life would have been easier. But we have to go through good and bad to learn that .

Talking about bad guess who ended up at A&E at 9pm Monday and was in the waiting room and didn't get home until 2.30pm yesterday. Had pain in my chest as I had heart condition had to go. Had ECG then blood tests and was told there was 7 hr wait to see Dr. Didn't see a Dr until midday. Had another ECG and chest x-ray. Didn't get to see him again until nearly 2. Turns out heart is fine, x-ray was clear, no infection anywhere. But the pain is due to my acid reflux which set off the eptopic heart beats. I did take anti reflux tablet which worked but had to come off it this year as my sodium levels had dropped to low. The Dr recons I have a form of gastritis. Will phone for a phone consultation with my GP as they told me to take gaviscon but I need something stronger. But at least if I get that pain again I know what it is. See a positive out of a negative. Always try and find one no matter how daft.

Take care everyone. Smiles and Mr S hope you are coping with your loss. ?