SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

For Smileless2012

Sorry for your loss and getting contacted when you don't need or want it by your estranged son. I hope you are well.

Thank you.

So sorry to hear that Whiff, hope you get all the help you need. That must be very painful!

Hope you are ok Smileless. I think if I was in your situation I would be tempted to try and reply in the hope that a dialogue would happen and perhaps rifts could be healed. I know this is not always possible and you may not feel able. It could be that your son is doing the right thing to make himself feel better, but it could be that he is genuinely grieving for his Grandma?

I don't know what's possible, but hope for many of us that events and things might open the door of dialogue and perhaps soften hearts.

If my son contacted me now my first thought would be what does he want? Then it would be how he contacted me. Whether I responded. If it was via email or text don't think I would reply. As he is still taking the cowards way out like he did in the first place. He would need to come here so he faces me.

I have thought about this a lot throughout the last year. When he was here on my birthday he knew what he was going to do. It was cruel to give me a lovely time. Even crueller not to let me know my grandson's name or his date of birth. Or let my grandson's have their birthday present and birth presents. How could he be so spiteful to his own son's.

OnwardandUpward feeling better but still very tired. Booked phone appointment with my GP for the 9th. I know my heart is fine and I have no infection. So I am not worried. At least all the GPs at my practice are easy to talk to.

Such a conflict of emotions you must both be feeling at this sad time, i am sorry for your losses.
Take care of each other?

That is cruel and painful, Whiff. I'm so sorry. These overgrown kids don't care about anyone but their own selfish needs, it seems. Never mind how their kids or their parents feel as long as they got their needs met. Sigh They are setting a terrible example of how to treat your parents to their own kids, who will be wondering why they don't have Grandparents like other kids do.

Glad you are feeling better !

My 3 grandson's by my son and daughter in law have a nannie she lives with. But my husband died 17 years ago. And my daughter in law has nothing to do with her father the last I heard.

Mr. S. has replied OnwardandUpward and I replied following my mum's death last September which TBH I didn't feel happy about but I didn't want to ignore him, and leave him hanging the way he has with us.

I do believe it's to make himself feel better. 10 months ago he emailed me, nothing since until his other GM dies and he emails his father.

That's why I'm angry and upset about it and see it as an intrusion into our lives at a particularly painful time.

Glad you're feeling better and that you have such good supportive GP's. You need to take it easy and restrict any physical activity unless you're making posts here on GN.

Thank you Bridie.

Smiles I will be at my daughter's tomorrow . Her eldest is very good he is 3.5 and understands when nannie isn't well. And his brother is 7 months. He is happy to play with his toys and chuckle at nannie.

Not this time be a few months ago when I had to go to hospital via ambulance . He nearly drove her made by saying you are fetching nannie from hospital and taking her home. She had that all day until they came to fetch me.

Growing up with a mom who had physical problems made my children into more understanding adults. My grandson's will grow up the same.

I live independently and have finally had the last job done I wanted on my bungalow. 2 new bedroom windows which where put in on Monday. I have been her 2 years next month and it's done. All the jobs I have had done won't need doing again only re decorating in a 5-10 years . The garden is an on going joy. Who would have believed I was a gardener my husband said I had a black thumb.

So far I have harvested strawberries,french beans and courgettes. Oh no turned into a gardening thread???.

Will you be able to go too Mr S's mom's funeral? I know it was very restrictive for your mom's. ?

Well, not much chance of you taking it easy is there Whiff. Good for you for getting all those jobs done and for discovering you have a green thumb.

Yes, we'll be at the funeral but I'm worried that ES will turn up. Totally irrational I'm sure but just can't get the fear out of my head. I had the same nagging fear when my mum died!!

Smiles it's not irrational I would be the same in your position. Luckily all my son's grandparents are dead . Just hope he stays away. It's not fair you and Mr S have this added worry.

Smileless glad that Mr S has replied, taking the burden off you. Did your ES turn up at the funeral of your Mum? It's a hard time for you both, without that worry.

I have a friend who's estranged from her son and she was mad that he only offered to have a cup of coffee with her when she knew he was spending the whole weekend with his Dad (her ex) She said she didn't want to have coffee with him because that was all he was offering her. I could understand that feeling, but at the same time I ended up saying that if I was offered a coffee I might take it in the hopes that more ground could be gained during the coffee. All of this is obviously difficult if nothing has changed and whatever problems were there would probably still be there. But you can miss someone, anyway. I mean, I do and I'm sure you do miss the good bits from the past. Sorry, I am rambling. I have a lot of questions about my own situation. Most days I think of them, remember nice bits and then realise with a sharp pang what's happened and that there is no contact.

Whiff, you're so lucky to be able to spend time with your Grandchildren, it sounds idyllic just to be there with them and they obviously care lots about you, which is lovely! Your garden sounds wonderful too! So glad you've developed a green thumb! I am better than I used to be, especially due to lockdown and experimented with growing things more than normal. You've done really well getting all your jobs up together on your bungalow. Hope you get time to put your feet up!

OnwardandUpward I am lucky I have a daughter and son in law that care and love me . My son in law said he knew something wasn't right for years before my son's email and letter. My daughter told me. But didn't want to hurt me by saying something.

Both my daughter and brother kept things from me as they didn't want to hurt me. My daughter in law plasters everything over Facebook apparently. I have never wanted to go on it. Of course she blocked them both .

Last Friday my youngest grandson reminded of one of the joys of having a little one in the family he was sick on me and some got into my bra. Funny how you forget how icky sick in your bra is. He just chuckled.

I have my lunch with them on a Friday so I have playtime before my daughter takes the eldest for his swimming lesson. Before they go he gives me my instructions. To change the babies nappy and to give him his bottle. Having a 3.5 year old telling you how to look after his brother is adorable. I know how lucky I am to have them. And never take them for granted.

I hate worrying my daughter where my health is concerned. But I promised both my children after their dad died I would tell them when I wasn't well. Unfortunately she has all the worry but her husband is wonderful.

I do put my feet up. I have always been a reader and love the feel of a book in my hands. 5 years ago I began to cross stitch and am addicted to it. Oh I've done it again it's a hobby thread?.

Where our estranged children are concerned no of us know how we will react if they decide to make contact. But I do know we have to protect ourselves. Smiles and Mr S are an inspiration to me. I know I will never forgive my son or trust him again. And as Smiles has said before the love for the son she had isn't what she feels now. I am being to feel that way. I love the son I had. This son I don't know anymore.

I am not worried about being indentified as my daughter in law already trolled me on another forums thread. They can read what I write all they like . What I write is the truth.

I am lucky they are good parents to my grandson's and have always said that. My grandson's are loved and well cared for. How my grandson's will react when they find out they have a nannie who loves and cares about them living close by and has been denied to them is anyone's guess.

No he didn't thank goodness OnwardandUpward but it was the worry then as it is now that he might turn up that's making me really very angry. We shouldn't have to be thinking it may happen, even though we're pretty certain it wont.

Oh yes, we "miss the good bits", 27 years worth and there have been times when I've missed him terribly especially with our DS being so far away in Aus. But the trust has gone and has been replaced by fear. We barely got through it and if it were to happen again, I very much doubt either of us would have the strength to come through it again.

As you say Whiff, we have to protect ourselves and none of us I'm sure would ever have envisaged having to protect ourselves from our own child.

The trust has gone, yes I also feel the same. Its sad, but how to replace the broken trust even if they did want us back in their lives? (I am not writing that because I think we should, but in case any EC are reading)

We do have to protect ourselves. Part of me would love to see them, but unless there was a significant and obvious change of heart it would be pointless. We shouldnt chase them either, ( not that you would) but someone recently suggested we go after them- I thought about it for a moment and then remembered the prodigal son (not heard it since childhood but it stuck) The Father looked out for him, but waited til he was repentant. Anything else would probably have devastating repercussions.

I don't think you can OnwardandUpward. It's such a huge betrayal especially when lies have been told to 'justify' the decision.

I do wonder just how much thought goes into this before hand and of course I'm not talking about AC who've estranged abusive parent(s), but those who are clearly being influenced by their partner.

As far as chasing them goes, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. So often I've seen EP's here on GN be accused of harassment for sending an EAC a card, flowers etc.

I remember last year I think it was, an EAC posting that they were surprised at their parents lack of enthusiasm when they (the poster) having estranged their parents had decided they wanted to reconcile. TBH I wanted to say 'what do you expect' but refrained and talked about the difficulty for his/her parents in being able to trust him/her again.

You never expect it to happen at all, if it happens once you'll always I'm sure be terrified that it could happen again.

You're right about the Prodigal Son, the father knew it was out of his hands and when he did come back repentant, so much so that he was prepared to work as a servant, his father took him back as his son.

What's often overlooked is when the other son was resentful of the welcome his brother received, his father said 'our son was dead to us but now he is alive again'. I think that's really powerful and maybe explains why estrangement is often referred too as a living bereavement.

We do have to protect ourselves, just as AC who were abused by their parents protect themselves by estranging their abuser(s). That often raises the issue of unconditional love but not wanting to reconcile doesn't mean we don't love them, we do and that's the hardest thing of all.

Smiles you are so right. I can't switch off the love I feel for my son and grandson's. When I love that's it . Both our children have always been told everyday they where loved and how proud we where of them.

When my son sent the email in May last year he asked for time . So I stupidly thought by August he was ready that's why I sent his and second son's birthday presents and birth presents for my new grandson who I knew would have been born by then. Plus something for my eldest grandson as I always give a present to siblings when a new baby arrives. He didn't even open his card and everything came back unopened with his letter. He wants zero contact he's got it.

It's easier for me to cope with this way. I would hate to receive the abuse some here have been getting.

I do wonder what my grandson's look like now. And would love to know the name of their youngest. But I am will never contact them. He decided he didn't want a mom ,I didn't decide I didn't want a son.

But one thing about it I am not dependent on anyone putting a roof over my head or food on my plate. I've done that myself. His mother in law lives with them. She is dependant on them for somewhere to live.
In this day and age 3 children shouldn't be sharing a bedroom. There house has 3 double bedrooms.

When I think of all the times I held my tongue because I was always so happy being with them. Now wish I hadn't. One of the things my son holds against me is we hide things about his dad's cancer. He is a father now and should realise that loving parents do everything in their power to protect their children. When he accused me of that I ask my daughter if she felt the same way. She said no as she knew we where protecting them also it was our business.

Thinking about it I am happier this way . I no longer have to put up with him letting me down or my daughter in law's rudeness. I do miss him and my grandson's but even if he contacted me my first thought would be what does he want. Any trust I had in him has gone. He has destroyed that and I can never forgive either of them. And the lies they have both told about me is unbelievable. But I suppose they had to find a way of justifying what they have done. And lies get sympathy the truth is a whole different matter.

There is a lot I could say about them but won't. I will not play their game.

Life is to short to waste on what ifs and people who don't care whether you live or die.

I lucky I have my daughter and family and other family and friends who love and care for me.

And as usual I ramble on and have repeated myself. But that's me. I am like in in person.

Why hold it against you Whiff? I can understand him wishing you hadn't and experiencing anger and disappointment, but talk it through with you. Let you explain your reasons which no doubt were your DH's too.

In such tragic circumstances decisions are made which with hindsight, may be looked back upon with regret, not that I'm suggesting you do or should have regret, but to hold something like this against you IMO is far worse than what he's feeling aggrieved about.

It's wonderful that you have your D and other GC in your life but as we all know, nothing can compensate for those that we've lost.

Smiles our son was 13 when we had to tell him his dad wouldn't live 5 years and 16 when he died. I have kept the promises I made to my husband. To me they are more important to me than any hurt feelings my son may have .

I talk about my daughter and family as I can never have the one person I want and need. He left a big hole in my heart. Than can never be filled. The day he died I lost half of me . He was wise and knew what I needed to live without him. Hence the promises. He knew I would keep every one of them. And I have .

Whiff x

Smileless2012

I don't think you can OnwardandUpward. It's such a huge betrayal especially when lies have been told to 'justify' the decision.

I do wonder just how much thought goes into this before hand and of course I'm not talking about AC who've estranged abusive parent(s), but those who are clearly being influenced by their partner.

As far as chasing them goes, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. So often I've seen EP's here on GN be accused of harassment for sending an EAC a card, flowers etc.

I remember last year I think it was, an EAC posting that they were surprised at their parents lack of enthusiasm when they (the poster) having estranged their parents had decided they wanted to reconcile. TBH I wanted to say 'what do you expect' but refrained and talked about the difficulty for his/her parents in being able to trust him/her again.

You never expect it to happen at all, if it happens once you'll always I'm sure be terrified that it could happen again.

You're right about the Prodigal Son, the father knew it was out of his hands and when he did come back repentant, so much so that he was prepared to work as a servant, his father took him back as his son.

What's often overlooked is when the other son was resentful of the welcome his brother received, his father said 'our son was dead to us but now he is alive again'. I think that's really powerful and maybe explains why estrangement is often referred too as a living bereavement.

We do have to protect ourselves, just as AC who were abused by their parents protect themselves by estranging their abuser(s). That often raises the issue of unconditional love but not wanting to reconcile doesn't mean we don't love them, we do and that's the hardest thing of all.

Yes, a huge betrayal and heartbreakingly devastating. I don't think anyone understands who hasn't been through it. I am having an extremely devastating day today as I bought something in April for someone special when we were still in contact ( I bought summery things expecting to see them enjoyed over the summer!) but then something went wrong. I was hoping for a reconciliation that has not happened. It is dawning on me that it may not and that's devastating- plus if they leave it too long and try to re connect in the Autumn I'll feel like "is it because it's dawned on them that Christmas is coming???"

We do love them (not a day passes when we don't think of them) but they have discarded us in the most painful way and though we miss them, we don't miss being treated badly and we definitely don't want to invite more of the same!

Whiff, so sorry for the loss of your wonderful husband!

So sorry for the pain your son as caused you and you Smileless and everyone here who is suffering loss.

I am again in the disbelieving stage, grasping at straws like an idiot and hoping things will change, but knowing they may not. Just when I think I've accepted it, I realise I'm back to square one again.

Disbelieving and grasping at straws comes from love OnwardandUpward. I hope you can find comfort and something positive in the fact that there are times when you have accepted it, despite there being times when you feel as if you've gone back to square one.

I know I did because despite the pain that the acceptance brings, looking back I can see that living in denial was far more damaging than accepting the awful truth.