SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Sorry not around much. Seem to be sleeping for England since jab 2. At least they're done now.
Thinking of you all especially smiles and Mr smiles. x

Yes that's true Smileless. I think I put particular pressure on myself today because of the things I bought for the summer, back in April when things seemed to be good. When it first happened I gave myself today's date for deciding what to do with the things I'd bought. I don't want to keep them anymore and am thinking of posting them for my GC but not having any expectations. It's either that or give them to charity and seeing as I chose them particularly with them in mind I think I will try sending them and see if they are accepted.
If I send the things, I know my GC will enjoy the them and that gives me more pleasure than giving them to charity, if it makes sense? We will try to do the same on birthdays and Christmas I think, unless it's returned or there is an objection.

Sorry to hear that Hugshelp. I didn't know the vaccine did that? I hope it passes soon.

Hugshelp I am sorry you are still suffering. But at least you have had both vaccines. I know how ill my brother and sister in law where when they got Covid. So as much as the vaccines have knocked you about it's better than having Covid. I know we can still get the delta variant but it won't be as bad if we hadn't had the vaccines. I do a lateral flow test every Saturday. Still wear my mask on the bus and in shops and crowded streets. I won't be giving it up this year. Hope you feel more like yourself soon perhaps by then the warm weather will be back. ?

OnwardandUpward when my son sent back the presents I had brought my grandson's and my new baby grandson . I asked my daughter if she knew of a charity which helped out families with new born's and young children. She did so she sent the things to them. I cannot describe the hurt I felt when everything came back unopened. It looked as if someone had crushed the gifts in their hands the paper was so crinkled. I know it hadn't happened in the post because I sent them well packaged and they where we'll packaged coming back. I never thought my son could be so spiteful to his own children as I know what good parents they are. That's why I have no worries that my grandson's are loved and well cared for.

If you do send the presents I hope the same thing doesn't happen to you. In the letter my son included along with more accusations he said zero contact. Which he has got.

I hate the thought of what my grandson's have been told or not told about me. But it's his choice not mine. My eldest grandson starts school in September. I hope he got into the school they wanted. He was going to a very good nursery that was on the same site of the school. He's brother will start at the same nursery this month as he will be 3. I know all this because he had told me their plans before he decided I was the devil incarnate.

I hope whatever you decide to do you aren't hurt anymore than you feel at the moment. ?

Oh Whiff, I'm so sorry! That's so hurtful!

My main worry if I do send the gift is if he thinks I'm trying to buy them back (Im not) We had a good time with them at Easter and I genuinely thought we would see them a few times in the summer so I bought some sand toys for our garden and some other bits I knew my GC would love. I will not send the sand toys because they are timeless and won't fit through the letter box. My son is so paranoid that he will likely not answer the door for a parcel unless hes expecting one. My GC are too young to read or understand, or even remember us so even though I can imagine their happiness at recieving the things, I am unlikely to even recieve a photo. I'm not doing it for that anyway. Its just a waste to have things going to waste. They are unlikely to return it because that involves being organised. My son has never sent anything by post. They are most likely to keep and use the items without a thankyou.

I am not sending everything. Just a few things that will fit through the letterbox. I will donate the rest to charity and move on the best I can.

So sorry for your pain, Whiff

I was a bit like that after the jag hugshelp hope it passes soon.

flowers Whiff I hope you’re being good to yourself with a little treat of something you really love. I’m so sorry that you experienced such a hurtful reaction from a loved member of your family.

onwards and upwards wishing you well if you do send your gifts.

Returning gifts to a grandparents is just plain cruel but I think that’s the aim. I do wonder, after trying all else,if we just
“let them hing as the grow” -my granny’s words -is the best to protect ourselves from painful feelings time and again. There’s only so much a person can take.

I’m now at the stage of pulling back from all efforts to help heal and mend because in our situation of no contact the alienating parent is a master at being cruel and has years and years experience of deliberately being cruel.

It heinous behaviour learned when very young and no matter how we tried to love and help it’s ingrained.

My heart is broken for the innocents in our situation, but I take great comfort and strength from the people on this thread who daily face the world heartbroken yet carry on and live their life as best they can.

smileless I thank you again for all the words of wisdom and the chance to express myself on this forum.It is a lifeline.

OnwardandUpward you are in pain just as much as me. We all are. But I admire each and everyone of you. Smiles brought us together and gave us a safe place to be. But I will not let the pain of losing my son and grandson's rule my life. If I did that it's means I am letting down the promises I made to my husband. And they mean to much to me.

I always told our children babies don't come with a manual . And every child is different. We bring them up with love,attention and good values. What they do with that when they become adults is up to them. But they forget their children will grow up . Once they become 16+ they will no longer be able to control them. Or who they want in their lives. As I said before interesting times ahead.

Granniesunite we crossed posts. Thank you. I love my garden ,addicted to cross stitch and love reading . So I treat myself by doing those things . Treated myself to a greenhouse.

Don't forget to treat yourself to .?

Yes whiffI'm now doing small things gardening, reading like yourself apart from the cross stitch, I might look into that.

I feel as if I’m just coming out of a fog and my aim now is to look to myself and heal inside and out!

Any advice out there in how to lose weight..(smile)

Granniesunite if you want to lose weight pears sequel thread on dieting and exercise forum. I 'm there. It was started by NanKate like here plenty of help and support . I used to be size 32 now 16. Taken me 4 years still got over a stone to get to the weight I want.

Sorry Smiles keep coming up with different topics for the thread. Hobbies, gardening and not dieting ?.

Thankyou so much all of you

What all of this HAS taught me is that it's possible to be totally heartbroken and still smile and enjoy things, at the same time. It never really goes but as they say "Every day might not be good, but there are good things in every day"

OnwardandUpward like your motto. Mine I always find a positive out of a negative. Sometimes it's something silly or simple. But I always manage to find something. Then I am ready to carry on. ?

Thats great Whiff. I might have some tears first, realised this) how you can feel heartbroken, yet still enjoy things despite the pain.

Well, Sunday night and I haven't written anything to him to go in the parcel. 24 hours ago I decided that I would, but I really don't know what to write because of the nature of the brainwashing/ anti vaccine/ Qanon stuff. Part of me would like to tell him how upset I was when he told me I would get cancer and die soon because I'd got vaccinated. (I've felt angry about him trying to control my medical decisions by threatening me) There are many more things I thought about saying, but none of them would bring about a reconciliation. He threatened me that if I was vaccinated he wanted nothing to do with me- but Id already been vaccinated earlier than others my age (health) when he said it and I kept quiet about it until I'd had my second one. I only admitted it in the end because he was saying more and more extreme things and was paranoid that the vaccinated people were going to kill the unvaccinated. In an attempt to try and reassure him I told him I'm vaccinated and haven't tried to kill him and wont. I failed because he didn't believe me and wanted no more to do with us, he locked our numbers even.

In a way I would like him to know how hurt I am, but all of the Estrangement sites I've looked on advise against parents sharing their feelings in case it seems like you are trying to guilt your child into complying. The thing is, I don't think I can cope with hearing all of the extremist stuff he was coming out with because he's absolutely brainwashed and adamant that he's "seen" the future. I definitely do not want him to think I'm trying to get him back and yet I really do miss my GC and know the only way to be a GP is by getting along with my ES. It's so hard to be so threatened and discarded that in a way I don't want that behaviour to repeat. I do want my GC to have the things, I just need to find a way to communicate who it's from without saying too much or looking like I'm trying to buy them back, because I was finding all the brainwashed, radical extremist stuff really hard to cope with.
I swing between being concerned for his wellbeing and being really annoyed at how he's treated me/us to missing my GC and being in tears about not being able to be a GP anymore.

( I mean, he blocked our numbers on the phone and also social media so absolutely no contact at all anymore)

Onwardandupwards, I am afraid you can’t reason with your son at the moment, he is in a fragile mental state. He has become brainwashed and doesn't look further than what he believes to be the truth. Someone close to me have cut themselves off from all friends and family the same as your son.It’s hard to believe people go along with these crackpot ideas, it’s come off the internet as they see no one, everything delivered to their home. All you can do is find support where you can, like this forum and be there.

OnwardandUpward ,Allsorts is right. I think you are coping brilliantly . I am glad I have zero contact with my son it's easier for me to cope with. As much as I would like to know how they all are I will not let him hurt me anymore.

I know it's hard but for your own sake it might be better not to get in touch with him for a few months and not to reply or react to anything he says or does. What does your husband think ?( I hope I am right and you remarried? ) .

I am lucky to have my daughter and family. Who I see every week and we text everyday. She likes to check I am ok.

Even though my son doesn't want me I am still his mom and still grandmother to his 3 son's and nothing he can do will ever change that.

You need to protect yourself especially as you say you have health problems. I know it's hard to let go but there comes a point you have to say enough is enough.

Smiles has a better way of putting things. Wish I had her way with words.

You need to put yourself and ones who love and care for you first. Hopefully your son will get medical help then he may start thinking straight . But I don't know much about mental illness.

?

Allsorts

Onwardandupwards, I am afraid you can’t reason with your son at the moment, he is in a fragile mental state. He has become brainwashed and doesn't look further than what he believes to be the truth. Someone close to me have cut themselves off from all friends and family the same as your son.It’s hard to believe people go along with these crackpot ideas, it’s come off the internet as they see no one, everything delivered to their home. All you can do is find support where you can, like this forum and be there.

Hi Allsorts, thanks and Im so sorry for you that someone close has had the same. Its like we have lost them because they arent the same person anymore

It has definitely come from the internet. Even in the past when he was annoyed with me, his partner still communicated and let me see pics of GC. When all this blew up, "she" blocked me, but I think he got hold of her phone.

Whiff

OnwardandUpward ,Allsorts is right. I think you are coping brilliantly . I am glad I have zero contact with my son it's easier for me to cope with. As much as I would like to know how they all are I will not let him hurt me anymore.

I know it's hard but for your own sake it might be better not to get in touch with him for a few months and not to reply or react to anything he says or does. What does your husband think ?( I hope I am right and you remarried? ) .

I am lucky to have my daughter and family. Who I see every week and we text everyday. She likes to check I am ok.

Even though my son doesn't want me I am still his mom and still grandmother to his 3 son's and nothing he can do will ever change that.

You need to protect yourself especially as you say you have health problems. I know it's hard to let go but there comes a point you have to say enough is enough.

Smiles has a better way of putting things. Wish I had her way with words.

You need to put yourself and ones who love and care for you first. Hopefully your son will get medical help then he may start thinking straight . But I don't know much about mental illness.

?

Thanks Whiff , I cry most days to be honest and I've never been the type to. I don't even care about living these days because this has knocked the stuffing out of me. I wouldn't go as far as to say I'm suicidal, but I wouldn't say I want to live either. I have many good things in my life that I appreciate, but need to find a way forwards.

My son (when I last spoke to him) had refused all medical appointments and was calling Dr's "butchers". I don't see him getting medical help willingly...

Something a friend suggested is to send a present to GC and write a little note (even though they are too young to read) but completely ignore EC. What do people here think of that?

OnwardandUpward after my son sent me that email May last year. My daughter in law's mother lives with them. As I knew if I sent a letter to my son he wouldn't open it. So I sent it to her mother to read to my grandson's. I explained that nannie wouldn't be seeing them for a long time but that I loved them very much and missed them. And to look after their baby brother when he arrived. I said mommy and daddy love you very much but they don't want me to see you. And to be good boys for mommy,daddy and nannie.

My daughter in law tore me to shreds in her Reddit post over sending it via her mother and how dare I do such a thing. I didn't read it myself was told by my friend. When I got trolled by her on another forums thread I wasn't well hadn't my wits about me and pressed the link the first 2 sentences where enough for me. My daughter read it all but wouldn't tell what else she wrote as I would get upset also it was a pack of lies. My daughter only told me one bit as she found it funny my daughter in law described my daughter as unemployable. My daughter has a 2.1 BA Hons degree in politics. Before she had her first child she managed a million pound budget had 4 management teams spread over 4 campuses under her. She worked at a uni.

My daughter in law worked in a shop. Nothing wrong with that I have worked in a shop.

Of course people sided with her as they only know what she wrote. She painted me the worst human being to walk the earth. I am some evil harridan.

My advice don't send a letter I don't want you hurt anymore than you are hurting. Also I know my grandson's would never know of the letter as I can imagine her tearing it up.

Whatever you do don't give up living just because of your son. Losing a son and grandson's in my experience is nothing like the pain I feel everyday since my husband died. I lost half of me the day he died and haven't been whole since. My heart broke when he took his last breath. That was 17.5 years ago now. What my son has done bent it but it's straightening. Losing him and my grandson's is nothing compared to losing my husband.

He made me promise to life the best life I can and I do. You must to. Losing the love of your life the other half of you doesn't matter if you have only been together a year or 50. You are never the same. As the years goes by the loss doesn't get any easier but you cope. At times a tidal wave of grief overwhelms me. My darling will always be 47 I am now 63. I am an atheist I don't believe we will met again . Love him as much as ever still go by Mrs and wear my wedding ring and hate being classed as single . To me I am still married.

That is total loss. My husband didn't want to die wasn't his choice. My son choose to discard me.

So as much as losing your son and grandchildren is hurting there is a far worse hurt to come if you are with the other half of you and he dies first. That's in my experience others may disagree.

Aww Whiff! All those lies! So sorry for your pain and that awful abusive Reddit post. How did you find it and know who it was?

My kid that threatened me with no contact and my GC used to live with us until less than a year ago so I had got really close to the GC. It's a terrible blow, a body blow even- but if I had let him coerce and control me about the covid jab, I would then be locked into a cycle of letting him control everything for fear he would stop me seeing them. At least no coercion exists anymore because having done "the worst thing" he has lost control and will probably forever more punish me for the fact that he cannot control me. His Father was the same and unfortunately some of it is probably genetic. My DiL is controlled by him. In the past it was her trying to keep the family together and I don't know how she is in all of this, but don't want to cause trouble between them by trying to find out.

I see what you mean Whiff. I can't fathom that, but know it would be devastating. I know, I have to go on- be as healthy as I can for those who love me and don't try to control me.

Maybe I should just give all the stuff I bought to charity I used to really enjoy buying clothes and toys for the GC... Time to start thinking of myself, I suppose.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your dear husband Whiff I am sure he would be really proud of the way you are living your best life, despite missing him hugely. I would continue to wear my wedding ring, too.

OnwardandUpward I first joined Gransnet via a thread on the house and home forum March 2019 after my house sale fell through for the second time. And was at the end of my rope. My children always know what my user name is it's what their dad called me . I had written about my son's email on the thread. At the time I was staying with my daughter and family as having a lot of work done on my bungalow new shower room, plastering etc so it was easier to stay with them for 4 weeks .Due to my neurological condition I am in constant pain but at times it flares up and stops me doing things and makes me very tired so not on top of my game. My daughter in law posted as a nan and said her grandson son had read something on Reddit that sound like my daughter in law and put a link. If it wasn't for the pain I would have contacted Gransnet to find out who it was as she had never posted before. It was quiet plain from the 2 sentences it was her she mentioned me moving and my sale falling through. She had been writing about me long before I ever moved here.

I contacted Gransnet and got her post removed and gave them her details incase she tried it again. Now if I see a poster asking me something or PMing me I check with Gransnet first.

I had been reading this thread since I had that email and contacted Smiles via PMs and she read what my daughter in law wrote. Then I plucked up the courage to post openly. And glad I did.

Smiles made it easy for me to open up how I felt and told me about her son. I was no longer alone. And all I was feeling was normal.

It's seems odd but I didn't even know it was called estrangement. I have know people who's adult children didn't see them but never thought it would happen to me.

But like I said as much missing my son and grandson's hurts it's nothing compared how much I miss my husband.

I am stubborn . I like who I am and know I am a good mom, mother in law and grandmother and a good person. And I will not let what my son change who I am.

Just wish my body would behave itself . It bugs the hell out of me when it stops me doing what I want.

It's hard but you have to put yourself first. No matter what you do your son won't change . You need to protect yourself and those that love and care for you. It's not selfish . You have done all you can time to let go. ?

Onwardsandupwards. You asked for advice, I never took it, my heart ruled my head for so long, people like Whiff and Smileless are far more sensible than I was. But with time has come a little wisdom. I do think with mental illness, that is not the real person, I would not go along with his ramblings, but let him know, though you don’t agree with him, you love him and are there if he wants to talk. I am sure when he seeks help he will lose his radical ideas. Regarding your gc, if you think your going will be allowed them, I would send the gifts to them, put a note in light hearted and say you love them and look forward to seeing them soon. It is also very hard for your dil, she is in a very hard place, if she were mine I would let her know you are thinking of her and want to support. There is always the chance you will be rebuffed, but I always believe in being a little kinder than is necessary, if it’s not reciprocated at least you have tried. Then, put yourself first, you have done what you can, it’s now out of your hands, you have no alternative and a duty to yourself, to live a happy life, you never know what’s round the corner, everything changes.
I forgot my pride, did everything I could to get reasons and contact, yes it broke my heart, but I don’t regret trying, she was everything to me and at least she knows that, she can’t help not feeling the same. I do not expect or want a reconciliation because how could I ever forget all the hurt.It’s too late.
I hope you find the strength to move on, because you can and will start to think of and enjoy other things.

Sorry for the typo, it should read “if your gifts would be allowed” not going.?

So sorry for your pain, Whiff. That's dreadful and very painful.
That's so shocking about your daughter in law. Thank God you didn't move nearby them! It's important to like who you are. I like who I am as well and I won't let them change me. I couldn't be someone else even if I wanted to be.

Allsorts yes I'm willing to consider things, but also, left to myself, my instinct would have been to say things from a place of hurt and I don't think it would have helped. As it is, I haven't said a word. He said he didn't want to know me and blocked me- I haven't reacted in any way to him.

Over the last few months I could have gotten around the block or written to him, but I havent and no one else in the family is willing to talk to him because they are disgusted at his attitude.

I don't want a reconciliation to go back to being told I'm going to die from the covid jab and listen to all the other nonsense and stress. I do REALLY miss my GC and that's it. I don't miss my son because of who he had become due to the brainwashing. I miss the old him, though- but he hadn't been that person for quite a while. I might not post anything....I haven't really got anything to say and I don't think it will achieve anything. My GC is not going to understand it's from me. My Dil is in a hard place, but not likely to talk to me in secret. She used to, but got into a lot of trouble with him because he's so controlling. I don't want to get her in trouble either.

I'm so sorry for your pain Allsorts. Did you at least get a reason from your daughter? Things were not perfect with my son before he got brainwashed, but we got by- usually with help from Dil. For the time being I'm not going to do anything- unless I feel particularly inspired

OnwardandUpward I moved over 100 miles to live near to my children . I live 10 mins from my daughter and 40 mins to my son. After my mom died no one was dependent on me any more so I could finally move . I don't drive so only went to my son's if he took me . I don't regret moving I love where I live . Love my bungalow, area and neighbours.

Moving gave me back my identity. People her know me not wife then widow or just the children's mom. My postman calls me by my Christian name . My neighbours worried about me the other week when I be went to visit my brother and sister in law's. I forgot to tell them I was going and a parcel arrived for me on the Monday I went and my neighbour 2 doors down took it it. Both he and his wife where concerned and look through my windows in case I was on the floor. My daughter came round on Tuesday to water my greenhouse and they dashed out to see her. I came home on the Thursday and went round on Friday to thank them for their concern and promised to tell them next time I go away.

I lived in the same village from 1980 when we brought our first house. We moved a couple of roads away and lived in the house I sold 34 years. Never had neighbours that cared that much. The difference is I moved from the West Midlands to the North West of England.
Health care here is also far superior.