SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Oh, that's so lovely 3nanny
My daughter is really appreciative of things people do for her and of family, will help others where she can and is loyal and tolerant of people's mistakes. Thankfully she remains close to us. I share your bafflement whiff. I don't know why our son's attitude is so opposite.

Hugshelp thank-you for the message and seeing my GS was a special moment. As I am the paternal GM I will be pleased with whatever time comes my way with new GS and the times with the other GPs do not bother me at all.

Whiff I think you have good core values for wanting to keep family connections. strong. I was like that for many years and still am to an extent. I had good parents a grandma and aunts and uncles with lots of cousins. My parents have gone now and many of the aunts and uncles also and yet I done everything to keep family and extended family ties strong.
I still have one brother and cousins I have contact with and thankfully my son is close but I am baffled about what happened to my daughter and why her attitude changed so much and sadly my eldest daughter seems to have distanced
herself from me of late possibly because with everything going on with her sister she now knows the money hand-outs have completely stopped as after all if I do not see my GC then I am paying for nothing.

Unfortunately (or fortunately for some), online activity can replace family.

I think reaching acceptance of what IS, is helpful and when you get past the "what if's" and the "if only's " and the "I wonder's" then you'll see it was never even about you. It is what it is. I am getting on with enjoying each day and the peace that comes from taking a step back from things I can't change. Surely I miss some people from my life, but I also have much peace and joy that I didn't have before and I don't miss the me that was enabling their bad treatment of me - or the them who was treating me badly.

An excellent post OnwardandUpward you've certainly spoken for me. Thank you.

Wow really, Smileless2012? That's amazing!

It's amazing how peaceful life can become with less people. I actually might be starting to enjoy living... but also the more healing you do, the less tolerant you become, in my case.

You've done it again *OnwardandUpward" "the more healing you do, the less tolerant you become".

I posted on the previous page "I've changed and think some of the nice bits have been ground down and some of the not so nice bits sharpened".

Onwardand Upward ; Your post is spot on and once my mind
stops going over the (What ifs, If Onlys and the I wonder's
then yes it's right it never was about me anyway.
I too try to be thankful for each day and do things to enjoy my time and I do not miss the me that was enabling them to treat me badly. As your gransnet name suggests life must be Onwardand Upward thank-you for reminding me .

Thanks so much @3Nanny6 and @Smileless2012 I'm amazed but happy you feel that way.

It is onward and upward and, but am not always successful at this. It's more to remind myself, if anything.

Smiles and Onward wise words from you both as always. It was a lucky day I read this thread. I wouldn't be where I am today without it .

Yes OnwardandUpwards - I find myself saying, 'it is what it is' a lot of the time and referring to a Buddist quote: The second noble truth: Suffering is due to attachments and expectations, to grasping and clinging.
Thank you for the reminder and thanks to everyone else who has endorsed this.

Thanks Whiff, ah yes me too!!

Interesting quote Hugshelp, although Id be more inclined to say we suffer when we are attached to toxic people and it can feel effortless when we're with the right ones. It is what it is, though, definitely!

Many wise words from those estranged, as I’ve said I’m not so much estranged but distanced so might well be. I really think a lot of our grown up children are indifferent to us, contact is minimal, I no longer look forward to the odd meeting, over the years the constant refusal to include me in anything and every invitation to visit us declined, we now have nothing in common, I don’t know her life, she doesn’t know mine. Sad but true.

"I really think a lot of our grown up children are indifferent to us" I think you're right Sparkling. I think that the initial anger and bitterness that we were faced with when we were first estranged has morphed into his indifference.

Thank you for sharing the Buddhist second noble truth hugshelp, it's very apt when thinking about estrangement. Our initial reaction is to grasp even the smallest word or deed that may mean our relationship still has a chance.

We emotionally cling on to our AC because that relationship, that attachment, is like no other.

Our expectations, how we think our lives will be are shattered when we lose the child we love and for many, our GC too.

I agree OnwardandUpward that we suffer when we have toxic people in our lives, and that suffering is intensified when their toxicity 'infects' a much loved and cherished AC.

The years before I found this thread I just ploughed on alone and mainly thought that not many others experienced one AC
somewhat distanced and one child who had turned to a different way of life and family life while bringing up children.
I would look around me and see families and neighbours with their AC and some with GC and I wanted that happiness I saw myself. Now the years have passed by I see some of my neighbours not as happy as I thought with their AC although they do not talk about it because they too think families should be happy.

I often say "It is what it is" and the Buddhist quote saying suffering is due to attachments and expectations is true perhaps mine were too high. Our adult children become indifferent to us and when there is no contact then you do not know about their lives and they know nothing of how I live mine. Are we just supposed to have them, love them and bring them up and let them go never to look back to those
who would have given there all for one happy peaceful day with them and for us to then know they would leave us for good. Delving into melancholy now that's why I always have to divert my attention and think of happier days.

Now the years have passed by I see some of my neighbours not as happy as I thought with their AC although they do not talk about it because they too think families should be happy

Wise words. Things are not always as they seem!

Sparkling sending you a hug.
Life is too short to try and try and try and try sometimes you need to pull up the drawbridge for your own sanity.

3nanny6 i often think families stay in touch sometimes because there is money to be had. When the handouts stop so do the visits!

I am lucky my family included me in things and haven't had handouts. Being widowed so long haven't got the money and don't get my state pension for 3 years. No private pension.

So don't really know why my son said the things he did or why I am surplus to requirement. Up until the first lockdown he visited every week with the 2 grandson's I know. Then still had texts, phone calls, photos and videos up until my birthday last year.

Only thing I did was move to my bungalow. So I no longer lived over 100 miles away. Both my children had wanted me closer to them for years. But having parents and mother in law dependant on me I stayed and only moved after they died.

I feel so stupid for not realising my daughter in law hated me so much and always did apparently. But I supposed only seeing them 3-4 times a year I was just happy to be with them. Also I was so glad she made my son happy. They met a year after he's dad died. Had my happy son back.

I shut my eyes to a lot of things. Which if my husband had been alive we wouldn't have. I suppose I tried to fill the gap he left in our lives.

Even though my in laws where horrible not just to me but their own son we never gave up on them .

I was brought up with a strong family ethic. Every Saturday we visited all the family. Dad was the only one with a car and we lived over 30 mins away from my nan and then the rest where within 20 mins from Nan's. We visited both sides of the family. We did this until I was about 14 and then our parents gave us the choice to visit or not. My brother is 16 months younger than me. They still visited every week but we only went once a month . I loved spending weekends with my nan during school holidays. My granddad died when I was 9.

When I started going out with my future husband he used to like visiting my nan and one of my aunts and uncle. Nan always fussed over him and my aunt made the most beautiful cakes. We still visited when we had the children.

It was my daughter's birthday yesterday so we went out for lunch with the baby. My son in law was at work and older grandson at nursery. Had a lovely time. Then back to mine for her card and presents. I am lucky with them every Friday and usually see them another day as well. Depends on what we both have on. But Friday's is a set day.

As usual I am just having a ramble on. It doesn't hurt like it did and that's because of being here . I don't talk about my son with anyone . If people ask if I have children always tell them I have 2 and 5 grandson's because I have. I don't tell lies. One of my husband's and children's favourite games was see if we can get mom to tell a lie. My face gave me away every time. Also with my neurological condition I have lost some of my memories but sadly of our courting days. I look at photos and haven't got a clue where or when they where taken. My husband used to remind me. Pity we didn't write on the backs of them .

Life is to short for what ifs . Looking back I would still have done all the things I have since my husband died. Been a bit more prepared for how horrendous selling a house was . That came as a shock after living in the same house for 34 years. But I still got the bungalow I wanted just took longer to move. But everything else would be the same. As I am the same person. Only 2 certainties in life you are born you die. Everything else is anyone's guess .

We saw our ES's wife at least twice a week and didn't realise how much she hated us Whiff!!! Even looking back there weren't any signs; she hid her contempt for us well.

It's a beautiful morning here. We're in a lovely lodge with friends surrounded by beautiful woodland. We saw a deer last night and early this morning. Mr. S. has just gone in the hot tub and the dogs are watching him through the window, not understanding why they can't join him.

Smiles sounds like Mr S is chilling out. Sounds lovely where you are. Glad you are having a relaxing time .

I've done 90mins weeding . Just waiting for Sainsbury's delivery. Got a visitor this afternoon. And tomorrow afternoon start my new exercise class. Looking forward to it as I need to get my strength back in my arms and improve my stability. Also nice to met new people. Its chair based exercises but still gives you a work out.

Enjoy the rest of your stay. ?

Glad you had a lovely time whiff
Glad you're enjoying the lodge smiles
DH is very happy after the football.

Smileless, your dil has two sons, in time she will be the mil, what an example she and your son has set those boys. Whatdayisit, I know I should finally draw the line, but I won’t.
She knows what she is doing but I know if there was no contact at all I would worry more than I do now. Eventually the older I get the twice yearly short meet up will cease, yet I still can’t confront her as she will turn it all on me and would storm off. She is not forgiving, everything is her way or not at all, her friends are her family because she chose them. It’s pathetic of me I know but it would not matter to her, I would be doing her a favour.

Sparkling you are not pathetic you are a mom who loves her family. And are trying to hold it together.

I worry about my son and grandson's all the time but having zero contact is better for me than having to deal with constant abuse. The email and letter from my son was bad enough plus finding out about my daughter in law's rants about me on Reddit.

I would rather silence than anything else. Like you said to Smiles one day my son and daughter in law will become in law's one day to. See how they like being treated like dirt.

I had terrible in law's they where awful to their own son but we never gave up on them.

My son knows all this he saw how his grandmother treated his dad and us. Yet he has done the same to me and rest of our side. He and my daughter in law have tried to make out I am a terrible mom,mother in law and grandmother. But he will live to regret it.

As parents we do the very best we can for our children. Bring them up to have good values and hope they grow into decent human beings. My daughter and son where brought up the same . But we can't choose who they fall in love with . But hope they fall in love with someone worthy of them.

At least I know my grandson's with my son and daughter in law are well looked after and loved. So am lucky in that respect. Still love my son and grandson's including the one I have never met. Can't switch that off. But my son has lost my trust and will never forgive him .

Luckily I have my daughter ,son in law and 2 grandson's. Plus other family and friends you love and care for me and who I love. And that makes me happy and gets me through everyday.

Finding this thread saved me from despair and will forever be grateful to Smiles starting it and all of you here . You have got me through the first year and I know I will get through the coming years. ??

Indeed Sparkling, they may well be on the receiving end of the pain and devastation of estrangement at the hands of one of their own sons.

You're right IMO not being prepared to draw the line; pathetic!!! nooooooo. Make the most of those brief twice a year visits, make memories for yourself and your GC. Let them be the ones to instigate an estrangement if there's to be one, then they will be the ones who will have to live with what they have done.

Whiff

Whiff i am glad you had chance to celebrate your daughter's birthday.

Sparkling I'm sorry when i said sometimes pull up the drawbridge i didn't mean permanently i meant to take a break from what you are going through.
I don't think you can draw a line under it.
With time we change how we feel one day we might draw a line another day we might draw a sword! I would never judge anyone going through this heartache.

It's awful when you realise you were merely tolerated , even when you put in so much effort (well that's how I feel about many situations Im not now a part of) Big hugs to anyone going through this, or suffering the aftershock waves of it.

Although a loss is always painful, it's ultimately better for us to be around people who want us, rather than insinuating ourselves into the lives of those who just put up with us. A saying I love lately : " go where you are celebrated, not where you are tolerated" To be honest, not that many people celebrate me, but I can celebrate myself and wait for the right ones who are going to be a positive addition, not a subtraction.