Understanding estrangement

If there comes a time when your son does see his wife in her true colours and maybe decides he wants a life without her, the written messages you've received from her, could prove useful in ensuring your son doesn't lose all contact with the children DerbyshireLass.

You've had one hell of a week haven't you, yet despite your scary ride on the emotional roller coaster, you have your feet firmly planted on the ground. Your courage and insight will serve you well whatever the future holds.

Ooh Smileless. That's very clever of you to think of that, it would be evidence for him wouldnt it, never thought of that. Thanks for that.

Yes it's been one hell of a week but I got through it. Felt very ill at first, quite scary. Had this constant low level anxiety and feeling of dread. Couldn't eat, just felt drained. It took all my strength to get through the first couple of days.

Thank God for my lovely DS2 and all my fantastic friends. DS2 was here yesterday and he couldnt have been sweeter if he tried. Funny, because as a child he was always the difficult one, and a truly obnoxious teenager, whilst his eldest brother was a dream come true. Never a cross word.

Maybe that's his problem, maybe he's just too nice....

Whilst I don't want him to be another divorce statistic that would be the best out of a bad job. But it's not my decision to make. Whatever he decides I will do my best to support him.

I've just been washing down some cupboards, now off out into the garden, need to cut down some overgrown shrubs and then jet wash the fence so I can paint it.

Just going to keep busy and try to remain positive.

DerbyshireLass
"Wounds can become wisdom with the right perspective"?

Thanks Bridie. Very true, very wise.

That's it coffee break over, time to get cracking.

Advice please.

My DH and I have been married for 25 years. We have three adult children between us. My husband’s divorce was very acrimonious. The issue is with his oldest daughter who is almost 34 years of age.

She is very successful, has a fantastic job. In the 25 years the relationship has been fraught. We funded her financially through university but she still wants more.

We retired last year after 40 years of hard work and we have taken our pension early as the state pension does not yet kick in.

January this year we received the yearly call and was asked if she could have her inheritance and could we equity release money from our house and gift it to her so she could buy a better house in London. She has a deposit of £150k £260
Mortgage but needs more.

We said no as we have three children and if we do it for one we have to do it for the others. The house is intended for our future care.

We were called all names under the sun saying that her Dad had caused her no ends of mental health problems. We asked where do we take the relationship and she said she would review her position.

We sent her an invite for my DH birthday. We have received a text saying that as we have not bothered to contact her in eight months she does not feel she can come as we have done nothing to sort this out ?

Would love to hear how you would take this forward.

We have never had cards/ texts only if she wants something. The other two adult children are amazing along with our granddaughter.

Thank you

Alfiebear20. My advice is not to do anything. She has made her feelings perfectly clear. She only wants money and nothing else. She has already made her choice she doesn't want either of you.

You and your husband need to live your lives as you want. As you said the house is for your future care. None of know us how long we have got and being widowed at 45 has taught me to live life to the full.

Also if she wants more money then she needs to work harder and save more. Also what she already has enough for a nice house what does she want a palace?

Even though my son and daughter in law have done what they have. I am proud they saved and brought their own house as my daughter and son in law have.

No one helped my husband and me we had to work and save for our first house.

Why do some adult children think their parents will bank roll them when they want their own homes.

Words like hard work , saving, doing without and sacrifice seem foreign to some adult children.

You say you have 2 amazing children and granddaughter. Which is great. Don't waste your time on someone who doesn't love or care for either of you. When you have family that does. And who you love and care for.
Concentrate on them and yourselves.

Alfie, I fully enforce what Whiff has said. The cheek of her leaves you speechless., I did help mine but they never asked, one I helped more than the other due to legitimate reasons. They are both hard working and honest. One I rarely see but I love her very much, I don’t understand why I’m not wanted, I couldn’t do that to anyone not least own mother who loved you so much, but obviously she views things her way. Even if I couldn’t live some one I would have to know they wanted for nothing, but I have never cut anyone off.
To just call her own father once a year, must be heartbreaking for him, Shane on her, she cares just for herself, your money you earnt, you want to ensure you get the retirement you deserve. No one know how long they have so you both enjoy life. ?

Sorry about typos it’s prescriptive text, I check as I go along @nd push send, then a gremlin gets involved and changes it.

I totally agree with Whiff Alfiebear, she clearly sees the only benefit to her with this relationship being a financial one. With such an overt display of entitlement I'm amazed she was invited to your DH's birthday celebrations.

My advice is not to contact her again, perhaps send a birthday card/Christmas card but that's all. Do so in the knowledge that it may be some time before you hear from her again.

Let us know what you and your DH decide and how things are going.

I would echo Whiffs advice. You have already said no, quite rightly, just stick to your guns.

When my husband died I did split the insurance money between my two sons, so they could each get on the property ladder. Like Whiff and her husband, no one helped my husband and I but thanks to my husbands foresight there was a generous insurance payout. He bought it to ensure his family's financial well being and security. I didn't need it or want it. To me it felt like "blood money" which is how I tend to feel about inheritances in general if I'm honest.

I accept and appreciate the generosity of those who have left me money and am very grateful but I always feel saddened. I would much rather have those people in my life, rather than their money. I like to think that most right minded people feel the same

Clearly your husbands daughter doesn't. She doesn't want you in her life, therefore I see no reason why she should want his/your money either. She can't have it both ways.

I also think she is being rather presumptuous just assuming there IS an inheritance.

My understanding is that no one has a right to an inheritance (at least not under English Law,) rather it is in the gift of the benefactor. In Europe it is different, family does have certain legal rights to a share of the estate and cannot be written out of a will. . Not sure about places like the US.

But my understanding is.......here in England at least, provided that SOME provision is made for adult children then the will cannot be contested. I am further given to understand that that provision could be as little as £1. But I'm skating on thin ice here, so please do you own research.

If indeed that were the case, then I would tell said daughter of course she can have her inheritance early, with my blessing. And she would receive just £1. I would of course change my will too.

Oddly enough the question of inheritance has crossed my mind this week. At the risk of sounding horribly vengeful I do not want my DIL to benefit financially from my death, but by the same reasoning I don't want to punish my son if he remains blameless. Obviously if he turns against me too, then that will be a different matter.

I am not going to do anything rash, I will give the matter some thought and then I will probably see my solicitor to see what can be done, probably some sort of trust.

I would feel no guilt if I had to write my son out of my will if he estranged me, he has had a substantial sum already. Up until this week I wouldn't have dreamed of cutting him out of my will, now I'm not so sure. But as I said I am not going to be rushed, I will take my time and take advice.

I still think that when DIL realised my son owned his own house she saw ££££££££ signs. She is obsessed with money and status. Her spending is terrifying. She calls me cheap and yet, when she invited me out to lunch and promised to pay, her credit card was declined and guess who ended up paying.......

And, just last week, she calmly accepted my generous offer to pay for a takeaway. Never asked what I would like to eat, just ordered what she wanted. Then just two hours later that series of abusive texts began.....

You couldn't make it up.

Like Whiff has said some of our young people do seem to have a grotesque sense of entitlement. Not all of them, I'm sure most of them are lovely. Thankfully my sons never felt that way, they were extremely grateful for their leg up onto the property ladder. However, one does hear some terrible stories of some adult children's greed, avarice and their overwhelming sense of entitlement.

My advice, talk things over with your husband, after all she's his daughter but don't allow her to bully you or your husband into parting with your savings. And certainly do not take equity out of your home. Your need is greater than hers. She's still a young woman, with what sounds like good earning power, thanks to the education you helped fund. Let her work for her dream house.

Today when I was gardening, a sweet little Robin came with inches of me, stayed with me for ages. This is not the first time this has happened. "They" do say a Robin is sent by our lost loved ones to comfort us in our time of need. Not sure if it's actually true or not, but if so, it's a lovely thought.

I have been comforted this week by my husbands memory. He's still in my heart. I have sensed him close to me this week, watching, guiding and caring. I know it sound bonkers....? but I do feel his presence, helping me through this last awful week. And even if he didn't send the Robin, it was still lovely to see one so close up and spend a few minutes talking to it.

DerbyshireLass my husband is always with me. When I was in the garden this morning I was talking out loud to him. My neighbour was in his garden the back of me he is lovely. I never feel bonkers talking to my husband and my neighbour is quite used to me talking to him and myself.

The subject of wills. Under English law your will can be consented up to 2 years after you die by anyone who thinks they have a claim to any money or property. I didn't know that until I changed mine last year. I had to think long and hard before cutting my son out of it. But if he doesn't want me alive he will not benefit when I die.

To protect my daughter who is now my sole beneficiary who doesn't want my money. I had to get a letter from my GP stating I have a neurological condition not a mental illness and that I am of sound mind. I also had to write a letter about why I was cutting my son out of my will. My solicitor wanted me to write about my life, my husband's cancer and death . About looking after my parents and mother in law. Also what my relationship was like with my son. I wrote 13 pages of A4 paper. That was a weekend from hell. I had to relive things I had long come to terms with. It will never see the light of day unless my will is contested and is read out in court. Along with the email and letter he sent me. I also took out both powers of attorney at the same time. My daughter and son in law are my attorneys. They won't come into force until I am unable to look after my own affairs or health. Hopefully they will never be needed.

I had assumed it was your choice who inherited once you wrote your will but it's not that simple. My son will not be told when I die by my daughter or solicitor and my funeral arrangements will not be publicised.

I had wanted to arrange a cremation only and pay for it now . When I told my daughter she said no she wants a funeral but she will see to it. But told me not to die for at least 20 years. Told her I will do my best to keep going.

Alfiebear I would discuss with your husband but my instincts would be to reply once more, a polite and unemotional note saying something along the lines of:

"We would be pleased too see you at the party. However if you feel that you cannot attend then that is entirely your prerogative we will accept your decision."

This puts the decision ball entirely in her court!

If she responds asking again for money or making emotionally charged comments about her dad and mental health problems I would reply along the lines of:

" We are unable to give any more money for the reasons we explained previously. We understand that you are angry with your dad. ...."

If your husband is willing to have a conversation and listen to her, maybe follow on with:

"If you would like to have a conversation about your feelings we are here"

You are absolutely right not to give any money in this present scenario!

Thanks Whiff for the clarification about wills. I will have a good long think before I make any decisions and obviously will take good legal advice.

As I say, despite having had to put with DILs unpleasantness for several years now and often being made to feel Persona Non Gratis (sometimes even from my son on occasion if I'm honest) it never once entered my head that I might change my will. But this week has really pulled me up and made me think.

As you say, if they dont want me in their lives now then I'll be damned if they benefit financially from my death.

I wouldn't dream of trying to buy their affection or even the chance to see my grandchildren. If I do make any changes they wouldn't even know until after the event.

I would not change a will until all hope has gone, you have had a recent estrangement and things can change. I did nothing for many years until I was sure there would not be a reconnection as too much harm at been done for me to accept. Some people might not agree with my decision but I when I did it, I wrote a letter explaining why and lodged it with the solicitor.

I take your point exactly Allsorts. It really would be better to adopt a wait and see policy. A lot can happen over the next few months or so.

This estrangement milarky is all new to me.....in fact it's not even confirmed yet. I am just trying to make sense of it all and wondering what might come next. But in my heart and soul I feel pretty sure it's inevitable. Just trying to prepare for the worst, whilst hoping for the best.

Whatever happens I do not want my DIL to benefit from my death, some things can never be forgiven. She has crossed a line and is now firmly beyond the pale. However, I most definitely don't want to cut my son out of my will unless I have no alternative. I am hoping some kind of discretionary trust.

Here's how I see the various options.............

If she chews him up and spits him out after I am dead she will bleed him dry and he will be in dire financial straits.

If she does it whilst I am still alive I might be able to help him.

If I leave him his share unencumbered whilst they are still married she will burn through it no time and he will once again be left in dire straits.

It's a dilemma, that's for sure. I just want to protect him as best I can.

Of course if he turns on me (which he might, there's still time) then I will bypass him completely and set up a trust for the children, for when they are adults. If they wish to help him out then that's up to them.

As for me waiting a number of years until I make a decision. I am now 70, how many years do I have. I could live another 30 years but I mustn't pin all my hopes on that.

Anyway I don't have to think about it today.?

My husband had not been well for a few years before he died. Although he was very considerent to me and helped me all he was able, the solicitor would not agree to make a new Will for him as he had a mild form of dementia. Our Wills had been made some years before we were estranged.
If l had died before him and although l had altered my Will in a way to see that my daughter would inherit more my son would have got almost half if my husband was last to die as his Will treated both of our children the same.
My Will still leaves my son a small amount but I think l will change it as l don't want him to know anything about when l die.

We had given our son and daughter in law money when they first married for a deposit for a house. I sort of noticed that she didn't thank us but thought nothing of it. When we were being estranged she said that we had only given the money to our son.
This l can not make sense of at all. Yes, we wrote the cheque in his name, but l expect they bought the house in both names and of course we knew she'd be living there with him.
But we'd done it wrong. We apparently had been trying to split them up from the beginning.

I have had a really productive day, feels good.

I have been sad all this time. But l just think I am going to get Angry too

Ah, I do hope you don't actually become estranged Derbyshirelass It's very painful. So sorry for your sadness, Hilltop I cry pretty easily when I am reminded of my loss (and cannot stop thinking about them) so it's pretty often. Getting angry is part of the grieving process. It's horrible, isn't it. The crazy thing is, there IS a bond and if we think of them this much maybe they also can't forget us. I hope that charities such as Estrangement charity Stand Alone can help people. I applied to join their secret Facebook group, but so far have not had a reply. Probably they are overwhelmed.

Yes that sadness underpins everything doesn't it. It's a constant ache, even when I am busy and focussed on other things it's still there, still drawing me back.

What gets me is I that I think I am starting to feel ok and then wham, my heart starts pounding again, my stomach starts doing somersaults, I start to feel shaky and I feel awful. Or, at other times, I start to cry And then, when I try to think about the future......well let's just say it doesn't look very inviting.

Im fine if I keep busy, but when I stop in the evening, that's when I start to fall apart. I start to feels anxious and it all starts up again.

Hilltop.......We have every right to feel anger. Righteous anger. We have been/are being treated most shamefully.

I totally get why estrangement is called living bereavement. There's no closure. It's like an open wound which won't heal.

All I can hope is that over time the anguish will recede.

These are supposed to be our golden years. I've already had my future torn away from me by my husbands death. Just when I was starting to put the pieces of my life back together, this happens.

Oh yes, I'm angry all right.

Just watching some 80s pop music on the TV. The decade the boys were born. Every song a memory of the good times...... the children and I singing along, dancing in the living room, having fun.

It's like a knife in the heart isn't it.

Thanks Onwards and Upwards. I too hope against hope but I'm resigned. I don't think it's going to end well. Sounds like I'm being a bit of a Negative Nellie but I just can't see a way out.

She won't change, if I give in it will only feed her ego and make things even worse. If I walk away she will punish me. It really is a lose-lose scenario. But I have to take a stand. I won't let her take my self esteem and dignity.

Hilltop estrangement is another form of grief. But the people we are grieving over are still alive. When my husband died I was surprised by the anger and rage I felt . Felt wicked then realised it's part of grieving. I felt that same anger and rage after my son decided as he put it no longer wanted or needed my vindictive and manipulative influence any where near him or his family. Zero contact.

Felt that rage and anger after going through all the other emotions. Like with my husband a tidal wave of grief hits me out of the blue so I just have a good cry and get it out of my system. I learnt the hard way after my husband died holding your emotions in only hurts you and makes them worse. So letting your emotions out helps you cope. Because once they are out of the way you can face whatever life throws at you.

Had 2 wobbles this week Friday was my son's 34th and his second son's 3rd birthdays . And yesterday was the date all my cards and presents came back with the letter than made it final he doesn't want anything to do with me. Exactly a year ago.

But with the help of Smiles and all of you I have got through it and found peace. Life is to short for what if's. My husband dieing taught me that. I know I have said all this before but it's still true.

As with bereavement not emotion you feel over Estrangement is wrong.
For me it's grieving for the son that I knew and my 3 grandson's. Looking at the last photo I had of the my 2 grandson's . The oldest ones features are probably the same but he will be taller and his brother won't look the same. His hair might not be black anymore. His brothers used to be black but it changed. And the baby no idea what he looks like or his name.

But I know I haven't done anything wrong no matter what my son and daughter in law have accused me of. They have re written history to make themselves feel better. And justify what they have done.

But they forget I and the rest of the family know the truth. So they can play the victims all they like. Their choice. But there will come a reconning day. And Karma will bit them both on the arse.

DerbyshireLass I wouldn't let my son and daughter in law change who I am. I am a good mom, mother in law and grandmother. Plus I am a good person. I know myself very well warts and all.

You know yourself as well. You know you are a good mom , mother in law and grandmother. Plus being a good person. We have no control over who our children fall in love with. We just hope they love someone who is worthy of them . Unfortunately they can love ones that don't love or care for us.

I was able to find peace with my son's final letter. Zero contact he wants zero contact he has got. Hope it makes him happy .

There is still some hope for you which makes it difficult. Cutting ties with your daughter in law is good you can't put up with that harassment. But until your son decides what he is going to do it's like having the sword of Damocles hanging over your head.

I know what that feels like and it's horrible. It's how we felt after my husband's diagnosis of cancer and being told he wouldn't live 5 years. When it dropped it was devastating but at least we knew the end was in sight. After he died the grieving could start unfortunately it never ends.

May be a bad example but can't think of another one.

Be who you know you are and want to be. Don't let anyone change you. You have a son who loves and cares for you unconditionally. Cherish him . And other family and friends who feel the same about you. And hopefully you can find some peace.

Derbyshiregirl I don't think you are being a "Negative Nellie" but it makes sense to be realistic.
It's true, we can't change anyone but ourselves. So sorry for the loss of your husband, that makes all of this even worse. I can't adequately put into words how sad this makes me, especially for you and Whiff who have lost your husbands.

Whiff good to be yourself and know you are a good person! I too know I have done everything possible to be a loving parent AND YET my son still blames me for things.

I saw a photo of him online and his face looks bitter and twisted. He has frown lines he never used to have and looks like he aged ten years since I last saw him. So, all the rage and bitterness he has towards me has only harmed him. It's sad, but I can't even reach out to him because the change has GOT to come from him. He tried to coerce me into joining the occult cult he is a part of and dropped me when I wanted nothing to do with it. Now heavily into the occult, the strain is showing in his face. I can see he is not happy or thriving, but he has made his choices.

Good Morning Everyone

Whiff......What a lovely post, you have really made my day. Such words of kind and gentle wisdom. Fair brought tears to my eyes.

Sword of Damocles. You're right, that's just what it is. But I'm not going to sit around waiting for that particular sword to fall. This morning I wrote in my journal and drew up an action plan to move forward with my life. If my son wants to be part of it then that would be wonderful, if not well I will endure. But my DIL won't be allowed back into my life ever again. She's burned her bridges and I'm not after rebuilding them.

You are right Whiff, we really don't deserve this.

None of us is perfect, we all make mistakes, sometimes wires get crossed and misunderstandings happen, but when our offspring just throw a strop and refuse to discuss things in a rational, adult manner then there's not much we can do to put things right. Tantrums are acceptable for toddlers, but not for 30 somethings.

I can't speak for your son or for the adult children who have estranged their families but it occurs to me that maybe some of them haven't yet earned their stripes as grown ups. They just don't have our resilience, they can't control their tempers and haven't got a handle on their emotions. When the going gets tough they have a hissy fit, throw in the towel and look around for someone to blame, instead of digging deep and finding inner strength.

As you say, they play the victim, instead of taking ownership of their problems and looking for solutions. It's so much easier for them to abdicate all responsibility and blame others. Maybe one day they will mature a little and realise just what they are doing. But, I'm not holding my breath. By then I could be long gone.

I do blame myself. I should have been more careful about setting boundaries. By constantly giving into DILs demands I gave away my own power and compromised my integrity. I was a fool. Well now I'm claiming my power back, that's why she is banished. She will never have the power to control me ever again.

I have drawn a line and I'm starting again. It won't be the first time. I have had dark times in my life before and I lived to tell the tale. Becoming a widow has changed me, it made me realise that I have hidden reserves of strength and power. I feel that the worst thing that could happen to me has already happened. I survived that, I can survive estrangement.

Ultimately it's their loss, not mine. I lived without DIL in my life for 65 years, I can live quite happily without her for the rest of my days. Living without my son and grandchildren will be much much harder but I'll find my way. Yes my world will be a sadder, greyer place but I will rebuild my life. I can't live in the shadows for ever. I will choose joy and happiness. No more drama, just quiet satisfaction, peace and contentment.

It occurred to me this morning that I probably have a window of about 6-8 weeks to finish sorting out my garden and tackling some outside jobs. So that's where I'm going to concentrate my efforts. I have just finished painting the last 4 fence panels. Next I'm going to cut back some shrubs, get the jet washer out and maybe do some weeding if I'm not too tired after all that. Tomorrow I will visit B&Q and buy some paint for the shed. That's next weeks job.

The plan is to get as much of the outside work done as possible before winter sets in. Then, over the winter, I am going to have a massive declutter and freshen up the interior. I'm going to upgrade my environment and elevate my style. Create a beautiful home, a place of peace, comfort and sanctuary. Treat myself to some nice new accessories. After all I won't be having to buy DIL lunches or pay for takeaways any more will I. ??. I'll spend my money on me for a change. And whilst I'm at it.....I'm going to revamp my own personal style, treat myself to some new clothes.

I am going to sell some of my treasures (stuff that was earmarked for DIL, jewellery, nice porcelain, etc). I shall put the money towards a holiday next year, Covid permitting).

Time to be a bit selfish and start putting my needs first. Time to resurrect some of my long forgotten dreams and see if I can make a few of them come true. Now that covid restrictions are easing I am going to take up some new hobbies, join some clubs or groups, meet new people.

If the likes of Tina Turner, Madonna and Kylie can reinvent themselves and come back from adversity, then so can I. ?. I am not going to just lie down and feel sorry for myself, I am going to pick myself up by the scruff of the neck and make a fresh start.

Right, breakfast break over, time for that garden.........release my frustrations by having a good hack at the overgrown shrubs.

My friends - we can do this. We are strong, powerful resilient women. Maybe that's why our DILs hate us, they can't control us and bend us to their will. Just a pity our sons haven't inherited any of our grit.