Why do I torture myself

I’ve just read tge quote “ magical vagina” who dreams this nonsense up?

Ellese, I understand how hard it must be without put your sons support, know how we all love our children. He doesn’t know you are having an operation and obviously you wouldn’t get in touch to guilt trip him. Could you not send birthday cards to them all on their big day, put a nice message in his, not asking to see him, just that he’s always in your heart and you love him, maybe one day he will think of your words and realise he cares for you. I do hope so, It never worked for me, but I know if another who it did.

Allsorts

I’ve just read tge quote “ magical vagina” who dreams this nonsense up?

Women who blame other “new” women when the menfolk don’t do what the first women want them to.

It's a horrible term isn't it Allsorts, more insulting to men than the women it's supposedly aimed at.

I see it as a sarcastic term, funny to me.
If women had magical vaginas, husbands and partners would do what we asked them to, even remind them we are not their managers (emotional workload)!

So no, men have a mind of their own, get away with whatever they do that others dont like and the female partner is often blamed for it.

This is it, is it not? "Men have a mind of their own, get away with whatever they do that others dont like and the female partner is often blamed for it"

Men do as they please, but when the man's mum is annoyed d.i.l. is blamed for not pleasing to her m.i.l.

Hold your ds responsible to your happiness.

Obviously I had never heard the term before but I am guessing it's used in situations where mothers can't understand their sons now put another woman first so the new woman in their sons life is blamed instead of understanding its a natural/normal progression.

Some Mils, even when their sons have wives and children, expect their sons to be at their beck and call, my drunken MIL was like that and didn't understand that her son had people at home he was responsible for and wanted to spend spare time with at home and couldn't just drop everything and come running and that was my fault apparently.

Oh I do ultimately Norah but that doesn't negate the influence and pressure from his wife.

Well I'm sure it is in some cases Violetsky but not in all by any means, and of course having less contact with your son once he marries and has a family of his own which is completely normal and to be expected, is not the same as no contact at all.

Terms don't always get used in the situation they are appropriate to Smileless2012 as we discussed before but that doesn't change their actual meaning.

I disagree. If a term is used inappropriately then the meaning becomes skewed.

Smileless "having less contact with your son once he marries and has a family of his own which is completely normal and to be expected, is not the same as no contact at all."

Less contact with married AC is normal. I wonder what mum or m.i.l. reasonably expects from married with children AC? I expect nothing, I am typically delighted with whatever is.

"I am typically delighted with whatever" I was too Norah. Less contact was never an issue; no contact is.

What is normal, expected contact with married AC? Once a fortnight? Once a month? Christmas and Birthday? It may be that we expect too much of busy families.

Every family is different Norah, what may be 'normal' in terms of regulatory of contact for one, may not be 'normal' for another.

Hold your ds responsible to your happiness

Better yet, hold yourself responsible for your happiness. Other people do t exist to please us.

That's true Summerlove "other people don't exist to please use" but that doesn't mean that their behaviour can't cause great pain and distress, especially if they're people we love.

As a GP what amount of contact is expected from a married AC? I would like at least once a week to see my GS and if I got more that would be a bonus to me and also maybe to get more perhaps meant that my AC was not too busy and could bring my GS more than once a week.

Reading some of the other posts on this thread I can empathize with the posters and for me I have an AD who has three of my GC. The relationship I had with her was demeaning to me and possibly on both sides there began to be little contact this then went to her making calls to me and
dangling a carrot on a stick telling me that I could pick up the GC and take them out only to go back on that and tell me
I was not a good enough person to let her do that.
That then escalated to no contact and I suppose estrangement and the last time I saw my GC from my daughter was May 2021 so I have accepted it and fill up my days with things to keep the memories away. I am past the point of bothering to send cards anymore and in one call my daughter told me that the children had been asking for me but she told them that I no longer want to see them, I think that is one of the most hurtful things she has said.
I am at least happy I have the new GS and whatever time they give me is fine by me.

Smileless2012

That's true Summerlove "other people don't exist to please use" but that doesn't mean that their behaviour can't cause great pain and distress, especially if they're people we love.

Even still
We are the only ones responsible for our feelings.

We might be hurt or pleased by others actions, but those emotions belong to us. We choose how we feel.

Our children are not responsible for our emotions.

It's lovely that you have you new GS 3nanny. I'm so pleased for you, you've been though so much so enjoy that precious little boy, and make the most of every moment you get to spend with him.

Thank-you Smileless and I think there must be a higher being above which I fully believe in that timed the arrival of this precious little boy that has at least taken some of the pain of the loss of my other three. Always a place in my heart for them
sadly no contact in my life.

Sometimes that is why I do not regularly post about them as missing them will stay with me always and not keep posting such sadness helps me cope better.

Meanings only get skewed if we allow them to be and do not stand against or explain them. This works for the benefit of those who use them to easily describe their situations. It's not toouch to ask to not want to be hurt by those who choose to use them differently when it wouldn't harm them in any way to listen and stop.

Any person who is capable of change and personal growth listens when a meaning is explained to them and is able to make the choice to try and understand what is meant rather than twist it into something that it is not for their own benefit. Even if there is no benefit other than some kind of bizarre oneupmanship where "you can't have those terms because I want to use them however I want" even if that invalidates people or makes it harder for them to be understood.

I know what you mean 3nanny that's why it's good to share the things that make us happy too. Good for the one who has those to share and good for others to read about them.

Our children are not responsible for our emotions.

No-one is responsible for our emotions except ourselves.

Having said that, taken to the nth degree then no-one would ever need to worry in anyway whatsoever about how they treated anyone else because they could just say "I'm not responsible for how you feel." Why would anyone ever bother to be "kind", "tactful" give "honest and constructive criticism" rather than "crush someone completely without helping them improve". Presumably as well there would be no arguable cases of bullying as the person complaining of bullying could just be told that they are responsible for their own feelings" Maybe the same with racism!

Now I must be clear that I DON'T believe that that is the case because I think we are all responsible for how we treat other people and that includes having some consideration for the impact of behaviours etc. That does not mean that instigating walking away; disagreements; estrangements. relationship break downs...etc etc should never happen because of the impact on others; of course they should and are a valid action for some to take in the context of their life and experience without regard to the impact on another person. Their own welfare and survival are rightly their priority.

In relation to how people write in posts online, including the use of words etc I suppose we all have a responsibility try to post appropriately and with thought even when giving constructive criticism. Explaining to each other what words and phrases mean in our own context, which may differ from someone elses, is useful but not sure that it means a phrase cannot be used in any individuals context, because presumably as we are all individuals we need to be able to explain ourselves with the words and phrases that we need to use. That can lead to misunderstandings which can be explained and hopefully accepted as a differing use of the same word.

Relationships both in person and online are so complicated!
Meanwhile we are all dealing with so many different aspects and phases of estrangements/low contact/and threatened estrangement/low contact and it is good that we have this forum to try to support each other even when giving constructive comments. I am personally grateful for what I have learnt, the constructive advice I have received and also for the support from some GN forums and some GN threads.