Why do I torture myself

Elless I think you have done the right thing.

I hope your surgery goes well and you have a quick reovery

Thought it may be better to explain the whole story -

When my ES and his fiancee were planning their wedding they didn't request any input (ideas or financially). A while before the wedding my son came to our house and said to my husband 'we are meeting up on Saturday to go and buy our suits so can you leave it free' my son had said that he wanted everyone in blue suits and my husband stated that he had numerous suits (none blue) and did not want to buy a suit that he would never wear again, he would hire one if that was ok to which my son replied 'well don't bother coming to the wedding' and left. I expected for him to calm down in the following weeks and contact us but he never did he just contacted his brothers and confirmed with them that they would all still be coming even though we weren't.

On the day of the wedding as I still had three sons living at home I could not bear to see them all getting ready so we flew over to Ireland for a few days and I sat in a hotel room crying the whole day of the actual wedding.

When I got back one of my sons told me that my ES had invited my brother to the wedding, who we hadn't spoken to for nearly 10 years because of his treatment of me after my Mum died, this really hurt me and I still have trouble coming to terms with it.

After some of the treatment that other estranged Gransnetters have received my story sounds quite petty, it's a mystery why my son has taken it this far.

My eldest son was very difficult growing up and we had many arguments and we also had a period where we were estranged but 2 years ago he literally turned up on our doorstep and said he wanted to be in touch again and one thing he said that will always stay with me is 'I'm sorry and you were right about everything', the estrangement with him took its toll and I still feel a 'distance' between us and our two grandchildren as if things were told to them at the time (by my DiL who I am still very wary of) but we did get to know them before the estrangement. What concerns me is that now my ES has had a son who we have never met, we will never get that initial bond you get when they are first born should we ever get to meet him.

Good grief Elless what a horrible thing for your son to do to his own father. What was wrong with your DH hiring a suit for the day? A ridiculous and immature reaction from your son.

It sounds rather coincidental that he'd invited your brother, who you hadn't spoken too for almost 10 years. I wonder if he did this after telling his dad to not bother coming to the wedding. Obviously you'd find out after the event that he was there. It's rather like he wanted to rub salt into your wound.

So, this is not the first time he's estranged you. I'm so sorry and your experience is why I would never want to try and reconcile with our ES.

To be estranged once is bad enough, but twice by the same person!!!

There's nothing petty about your experience, nothing petty about it at all.

I do understand how it feels knowing that you're highly unlikely to ever have a relationship with your GS. Our only GC are our ES's children. It's heartbreaking but there's nothing you can do.

Sorry to hear you have had periods of estrangement from 2 sons Elless I hope you are able to come together again for another reconsiliation.

Elless has had a two year estrangement from one son, not estrangement from two sons.

So the 2 year estrangement is from the oldest son too? If so, before the wedding?

If you read the OPs post @ 13.04 you will see that she says On the day of the wedding as I still had three sons living at home. She also has one son, who is the eldest, from whom she has been estranged on 2 separate occasions; one of those occasions being before his wedding. Nowhere does OP say that she is estranged from 2 of her children. Elless has given full disclosure of the timeline, circumstances and sequence of her situation if people take the time to read her post properly.

Elless your eldest DS obviously has form for cutting you and his father out of his life for periods of time; the latest one being a petty and childish excuse. As Smileless says, I'd not be too keen to let him back for a 3rd time; the hurt and pain he causes each time just gets worse because you're walking on eggshells to avoid upsetting him. Hard as it is to do, please just let him go. Concentrate on your health and recovery. You're far more important.

OP

The suit may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, given the difficult relationship you had with him before then.

Weddings are also very stressful events - it doesnt help

A father wishes to hire a blue suit for his son's wedding, rather than purchase one as he wont wear it again and that is the straw "that broke the camel's back".!!!

Elless clearly states in her post @ 13.04 that when seeking to reconcile after estranging his parents for the first time, she was told by him "I'm sorry, you were right about everything". So any difficulties there have been with this particular son appear to be more about him than the OP and his father.

I agree that weddings are stressful, but telling your dad to not to bother to attend because he wants to hire a suit in the colour his son's requested, rather than purchase one is ridiculous to say the least.

Just an excuse, and not a very convincing one IMO.

The suit may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, given the difficult relationship you had with him before then

I really can't get my head around this. I accept that there had been difficulties previously. However his dad wanting to HIRE a suit in the requested colour rather than BUY one... that really is a very flimsy straw and a very weak camel whatever had gone before!!

Anyway Elless I am sure you will consider the point, or probably have done already, and will draw your own conclusions.

"that really is a very flimsy straw and a very weak camel whatever has gone before" indeed Madgran.

Elless I think you've done the right thing for you and gave it one last go. Atleast you know where you stand and like you say, brings you peace.

If things have been difficult for a number of years, I think 'the straw that broke the camels back' was obviously the suit incident and wedding as a whole. For whatever reason.

Concentrate on yourself and your health.

To be fair to estranged children of abusive parents, the last straw can be something very small that might seem inconsequential to others.

Not directing that at our OP at all, it's just the truth of the saying, "the last straw that broke the camels back"

There is nothing in the OP that indicates any incidences of abuse, either towards Elless or towards her adult children. To bring in abusive parents to this OP is unfair and detracts from the problem she actually does have.

I agree Chewbacca that to bring "abusive parents" into the discussion is unfair as well as a distraction.

It's Elless' son whose exhibiting abusive behaviour, not her or her H. He estranges his parents, comes back into their lives and has now estranged them again.

Smileless2012

Elless has had a two year estrangement from one son, not estrangement from two sons.

Except she says in the OP that her “es” has a son and she can’t picture him being a father.

Her eldest son has two children who she did have a bond with prior to estrangement.

OP might have 5 sons.
Eldest
Estranged
3 living at home at the time of the wedding

VioletSky . I agree that in certain circumstances "the straw that broke the camels back" can seem quite inconsequential to others. I know you said that you were not directing your comment re the truth of the "camel/straw phrase at the OP specifically, it was a general comment. In the same way my comment about it being a flimsy straw and a weak camel was specifically referring to the information we have on THIS thread about the particular circumstances in THIS scenario, rather than a general comment about the validity of the phrase.

Within this scenario it still seems a very flimsy straw and a very weak camel to me.

Madgran I know what you were saying but I think it's probably not a good idea to just dismiss OPs sons feelings about it.

A second reconsiliation might hinge on listening to why that hurt his feelings and taking those feelings seriously, that's all.

To you it does, and to me it does but having been in the position of the OPs son.... 'being a very weak camel'.

I was, I was drowning and going through something terrible. Our relationship was already on the rocks. The way it was communicated wasn't pleasant and it was just another thing to add to a long list.
A switch went off like 'I can't actually do this anymore'
And that was that.

So yes, I agree but there's obviously alot more going on. OP doesn't mention what the relationship was like with his Dad. Maybe all the suits had to match? Maybe it was the way it was said? Who knows.

I think the OP has done the right thing sending the letter and now she's at peace with the whole thing. If the relationship has been difficult with her son for a number years it's not fair to add the grandson into an already fragile relationship.

Sorry Summerlove I don't understand what you're saying.

It was posted on this thread that the OP had been estranged from two sons and that was wrong. She's been estranged twice by one son.

It's wrong and unfair to Elless to suggest that the issues she's having with her son have anything to do with him having abusive parents.

Her son's feelings are not being dismissed, we have no idea what those feelings may be and to suggest that his parents have been/are abusive IMO is dismissing her feelings.

You don't have to be abusive to have a rocky relationship.
Difficult relationships are always there. Some people just don't get on. Like chalk and cheese.
Neither the son or op sounds abusive.

Summerlove I read that eldest son reconsiled 2 years ago stating mum was right about issues. Eldest has 2 children and relationship with DIL is still strained.

Estranged son has not been in contact for 3 years and has 1 son Elless has sadly never met except when the other grandparent passes the house with him which is an unkind thing to do if she can go a different way.

Not that it matters to the situation at hand. Families do fall out for periods of time.

While I was reading it I just hoped that 1 reconsiliation might lead to 2 if handled delicately.

Anyway I went back through and checked the previous replies and of course it is possible that some info was mistyped. I was just responding to what I read and remembered from previous comments that's all.

You don't have to be abusive to have a rocky relationship.

Absolutely so March, that's right. There is a tendency for some on GN to have the knee-jerk response that, where there is an estrangement, there must, by definition, also be abuse and that's just wrong. Having an open mind, and being able to see beyond one's own experiences and not apply them like a blanket over all other situations is important when offering advice.