Child's wishes

I last saw my granddaughter she was 4yrs 3months and 2days old. When I left her at 2.30 that day telling her loved her and would see her soon. I never thought it would be last time I’d see her. She’s nearly 11 now. I’ve pledged with her mum crying down the phone and in the street. I’ve pleaded with her parents and her sisters. She as since also stopped them from seeing her too. my son didn’t want to be with her mum anymore. She became bitter and full of lies. She also as moved with new Bf so none of us know where she as gone. It’s heartbreaking I know. I can imagine the tears you crying because I’ve been there and still do cry. I also used to send cards and presents at first she would take them then she would return them. I have a box with cards and l write her a letter every year and keep in the box for one day when my granddaughter comes looking for us. I also have a savings account for her to. My son tried everything but she never turned up. Medication can go on for 2yrs and you have to pay even if she doesn’t turn up.

Apologies for being pedantic CafeAuLait. You're correct about the provisions of the Children Act taking into account a breakdown of the relationship between children and their extended family due to a death or divorce, but in all cases it's the children's rights that are to be upheld, not the rights of GP's or any other blood extended family member.

Sorry for labouring the point but I do think it's very important for any GP's who are being denied contact with their GC to realise that as far as the law is concerned, they don't have any rights at all.

I agree of course that GP's are just as capable of power play when it comes to going to court as P's are in some cases by denying contact in the first place, and that "each case needs to be taken on its own merits".

I agree Smileless that there are right and wrong reasons for children to not have contact with GPs. It is never right to use children as weapons. I think, in most cases, loss of the relationship with the GC is usually collateral damage when the relationship with the parents stalls. In that case, I think it's best if the adults do their best to work it out.

The original reason that GPs rights came about was to protect GPs who had lost contact due to death of their child or divorce. I can support this. I know that sometimes GPs have now used these laws on other situations. In these situations, I just have to have faith that the court will look at the whole situation and any parental concerns. I also think some GPs use the court system as a power play too. In those cases, the reason they fell out with their child in the first place is probably found right there.

Each case needs to be taken on its own merits.

A friend of mine is in this situation right now as her son was divorced (he had an affair) and she has not seen her two grandchildren since. The ex-wife is Belgian and so had not only cut contract but has left the UK and they don't even have an address. My friend copes with this by, every year, buying a birthday present and Christmas present for each child, wrapping each up with a card and message, and sometimes the odd card or letter during the year, all dated, and they all go into two large plastic storage boxes in the loft (one for each grandchild). She hopes that, at some point, they will make contact, or they will be old enough so that she can make contact with them without the mother blocking contact, and then she can hand over the presents so that they can see that they have always been in her thoughts. It's the only thing that keeps her hopes alive. A very sad situation.

I can understand this topic being of concern to some parents CafeAuLait when they have genuine concerns about the safety and welfare of their children, and how this could be jeopardised if in contact with GP's who are known to be capable of abuse.

It is however undeniable that that is not the only reason why GP's are denied contact with their GC, so it's also a distinct possibility that this may be concerning to some parents because they've denied contact to punish and/or out of spite and revenge.

Rather than making their own children's welfare a priority, they are using them.

I guess I was denied my right to know any of my extended family. However, while I think it was a regretful decision and wish I did know them, I accept that it was my parents' right to make that decision.

When I was a child minder one boy aged 10 told me he liked Ribena as his granny gave him it. He told me his mother won't visit the granny anymore and he was sad about it. The mum already told me she needed the place as her mother had reported her to social services. They had visited her but were satisfied the child was well cared for. No social worker was involved in his care.
I think the relationship with granny re-established after a few months as she stopped bringing the child. I hope so anyway as the boy was very sad

No they don’t I’m afraid. The court is only interested in the parents. You can do what I did I wrote a letter to the judge but don’t it made much differents.

"that's the kind of situation that GP's rights was designed for".

GP's don't have any rights, it's the children's rights to know their extended family that are enshrined in the Children Act, and those rights are not limited to a bereavement or divorce situation.

Great final paragraph in your last post Namsnanny.

Namsnanny

^I'm glad I didn't give in to my child and hand them over to someone who rang the alarm bells^
What were the alarm bells saying?
Was this a court ordered situation?

The courts usually consider all aspects of the childs welfare, which is why somtimes an ex that is abusive to their partner is allowed access to the child. As there is no history of problems, and the dynamics between them are different.
Especially when the child is away from both parents and gets to spend time with them without tension.

Parents obviously allowed their own prejudices to influence the situation when courts arnt involved.
As in access to GP.
In the same way the GC has a different relationship with GP than the parents do.
But the gchildren have to abide by their parents rules, whether the parents intuition is real or imagined.

I won't share the details but when I ran the situation past a few other parents, they agreed it was very concerning. It wasn't a family member btw, but the same situation could occur with family members.

I think it is a mistake to assume that children will spend time with grandparents without tension. My own children who are old enough to remember their GM still want nothing to do with her based on their own memories of direct interaction with her. The others are well aware of the situation and have heard all about it from the older ones. They know what their GM did and think what she did to their father is horrible. They feel that's all they need to know.

I'm glad I didn't give in to my child and hand them over to someone who rang the alarm bells
What were the alarm bells saying?
Was this a court ordered situation?

The courts usually consider all aspects of the childs welfare, which is why somtimes an ex that is abusive to their partner is allowed access to the child. As there is no history of problems, and the dynamics between them are different.
Especially when the child is away from both parents and gets to spend time with them without tension.

Parents obviously allowed their own prejudices to influence the situation when courts arnt involved.
As in access to GP.
In the same way the GC has a different relationship with GP than the parents do.
But the gchildren have to abide by their parents rules, whether the parents intuition is real or imagined.

Cossy - were they GPs who had lost contact due to bereavement or divorce? Just curious because that's the kind of situation that GP's rights was designed for.

Please contact a family solicitor for half an hours free consultation - I know of a couple of cases that went to court and grandparents were given access rights It is very rare but does happen x good luck Other than that all the other suggestions are brilliant

I don't see myself as having any rights over my grandchildren. I raised my children. It's the parents of my grandchildren who have the rights and decision making position over what is their children, not mine.

I write a letter to each of my estranged grandchildren on their birthday, I am keeping the letters in the hope that one day they will be able to read them for themselves and understand that we never stopped loving them or thinking about them. I also find it very therapeutic for me- having a conversation with each child and reminding myself that I am part of their family. It is such a difficult situation- and as grandparents we seem to have no rights.

I'm so pleased that you are now in contact with your GD2 bear you must be overjoyed as you'd have thought you'd lost her for good.

Thank goodness for your son's ex Gran16. What a nasty and spiteful thing to do, essentially blackmailing your GS's mum into not allowing you contact by paying "additional maintenance".

"Using children as pawns to hurt people is disgusting behaviour and not only hurts us GP but the children also"; absolutely.

Yes it would apply to uncles and aunts as well as GP's montymops and as with GP's there would need to be proof of an established relationship and bond with the children over a period of time.

User7777

It's a travesty that kids are used like pawns in parents disputes. I could not stand my ex husband, but I always asked my child if they wanted to see nan and grandad on his side. My kid wanted to see them, so they did. Perhaps I gave my child too much autonomy. I feel I did the right thing, even though they bad mouthed me over the years to my kid. My AC now knows how to think for themselves, instead of listening to others. AC now middleaged and can see the reality of all involved

For what it's worth, I think you will have done your child a great service.
Best wishes to all your family.

www.gov.uk/contact-grandchild-parents-divorce-separate

Checkout CAFCASS

Theoddbird

Of course children should be asked....

No they shouldn't at young ages. Children can't know the underlying issues and dynamics of the relationships at that age, nor should they. They don't always know why a situation isn't good for them. It's the parents' responsibility to make those decisions. That doesn't mean that it's always fair to grandparents or the right decision. Ultimately the parents will have to account to the children for the decisions made.

I'm glad I didn't give into my child when they were angry and crying that I wouldn't let them spend time with someone who rang all the alarm bells. Now that she's grown my child can see exactly why I said no and completely agrees with me.

Gosh this is such a sad situation. Can I suggest you open premium bond accounts for each grandchild, pay in whatever you might have spent on a present. It will accrue over the years. You could also buy birthday and Christmas cards, in which you write a short chatty letter. You could add postcards from places you go on holiday as well. You can then keep these - don't send them - and when the grandchildren get in touch in years to come they can see it wasn't you ignoring them and that you cared about them and thought about them. You probably need to get in touch with a family lawyer and have a discussion about access. I don't know how much it would cost, but you can't be the only people in this situation. It might be worth the investment in proper legal advice to put your mind at rest. I've got a feeling that you can apply for visiting "rights" when the children are 16, but that needs checking. Good luck!

And definitely not the other grandparent. Their loyalty will be with their child.

Children don't have a say, there are grandparents out there, genuine ones who lose touch through one thing or another but there's that handful that aren't nice people.
Children can't understand that or separate the good ones from the not so nice ones.

That's where the parents come in, they get to say who they want in their children's lives and want to protect them.

Only other way is court, maybe see a solicitor about it.
Or try and build a bridge/relationship with the parent.

I can't agree with going through the 'other grandma' to communicate with the children. That would just come across as going behind my back to get to the children and wouldn't help the situation at all. As the other grandma I wouldn't get involved in that either. I'd give any communications to the child's parents so they can decide whether to communicate it to their children. I'm not going to be piggie in the middle.

Of course children should be asked....