Child's wishes

I'm sorry I meant if grandchildren and grandparents are
estranged

I don't think so (but I'm not an expert). I think the parents wishes are paramount unfortunately.

Does anyone know that if we are estranged from our grandchildren, and the parents of the children aren't giving them any birthday gifts etc sent to them, would we be allowed to write to the children, send gifts, etc to the other set of grandparents who see the children,so that they can pass them on?

It is very difficult to answer this as every situation is different. Did you have a good relationship with the other grandparents? It is possible that the other grandparents wont want to get involved for fear of the same thing happening to them. I am so sorry you are going through this 'living bereavement.'

In a court situation where custody is being decided then children would be consulted about where and with whom they would like to live but in these circumstances it’s highly unlikely,
As for the other grandparents passing gifts on, it’s unlikely unless parents agree, as they are responsible fir their children until 16, unless it’s proved the children are unsafe with them.
Mediation can be helpful but both sides have to agree to this.
I am sorry Heartwrenched.

I know how hard this is for you Heartwrenched as we're in the same situation. We were sending cards and Christmas and for birthdays but have stopped now as I doubt they were being passed on.

We always bought 2, one to send and one for a memory box we have for them. I suggest you do that and in addition you could open a savings account for each in your name, and put money in their instead of buying gifts.

If you do get to see them in the future, you'll be able to draw that money out for them but if not, leave details of the accounts in your will to ensure that they'll get the money once you're no longer here.

IMO it would be unwise to involve the other GP's as doing so would put them in a potentially very difficult position.

I'm sorry but I think it unlikely the parents would be willing for any gifts, cards or letters you send to be given to the children. That would mean there's some contact with you and if they were willing for this to be the case, you'd have that contact now.

Unfortunately the GC in cases like these are the innocent victims; their wishes and rights not being taken into account.

Again, I'm sorry you're in this situation.

Why not keep a notebook to write to your grandchildren, talking to them about things you have done together, are now doing, what you feel about them. Just chatty things. Include photos and birthday and Christmas wishes. Whatever helps you to feel closer to them.

I am not estranged but kept a book for over 20 years for my children and also grandchildren, which they will get when they are old enough.

I always send them a postcard from holidays too, you could do the same and keep them together with the book, so that one day they will know you have always cared. I wish you well.

Smileless2012

I know how hard this is for you Heartwrenched as we're in the same situation. We were sending cards and Christmas and for birthdays but have stopped now as I doubt they were being passed on.

We always bought 2, one to send and one for a memory box we have for them. I suggest you do that and in addition you could open a savings account for each in your name, and put money in their instead of buying gifts.

If you do get to see them in the future, you'll be able to draw that money out for them but if not, leave details of the accounts in your will to ensure that they'll get the money once you're no longer here.

IMO it would be unwise to involve the other GP's as doing so would put them in a potentially very difficult position.

I'm sorry but I think it unlikely the parents would be willing for any gifts, cards or letters you send to be given to the children. That would mean there's some contact with you and if they were willing for this to be the case, you'd have that contact now.

Unfortunately the GC in cases like these are the innocent victims; their wishes and rights not being taken into account.

Again, I'm sorry you're in this situation.

I am so sorry for you Heartwrenched.
Smile less has a good option- could that be something for you to think about?

Sending you hugs and

I am very sorry you are in this situation.

I wouldn't risk putting the other grandparents in this position.

I'm afraid unwanted contact is quite often viewed as harassment and stalking no matter what the intentions behind doing so.

The very best thing you can do to have a good relationship with your grandchildren is to find a way to have a good relationship with their parents.

Violetsky Your last sentence says it all. that is all you can do. If you really try that and it fails then at least you know you have really tried your very best.

Hell no!

"Hell no!" what Hithere?

I feel terrible for you. I think kids have a right to know their extended family. It states that in the Children Act.
My grandparents were not allowed to see us due to our fathers ego. So we never knew them until we were 18. My g p sent Xmas presents which were never acknowledged by our stupid father. It is time family courts looked into the damage kids are caused by vengeful parents. And no, after 18 years old there was precious little time left before they died. It's the cruellest thing, parents do to their kids

Unless you go through the courts, which is very difficult (particularly in the UK) the there are official rules about how to navigate this situation.

What is your relationship like with the other grandparents? If it’s good then perhaps speak to them? If not then maybe write. All you can really do is ask the parents and see what they will allow.

Obviously going through the courts is an option but quite complicated and can be costly. And may risk damaging your relationship with the parents further, which may hinder any chance of reconciliation.

I don't think it does say that User7777. I think what you have heard refers to children in care.
Courts in the UK generally do not go against the parents wishes unless the grandparent can prove that they have had a substantial role in a child's life and it would be determental to the child not to see them. I do not think that would change if going to court becomes easier.

I would never advise anyone to go that route, it would in most cases destroy any chance of mending the relationship. I will relate what I have heard about the reasons this would be a terrible.

If there were alegations that the grandparents were unfit or the parents were unfit this could involve the children being interviewed and no matter how gently this is done, children are smart. They will ask questions. They will likely find out what is happening.

It would place emotional stress on the family which affects the children.

It will place financial stress on the family which affects the children.

If grandparents have concerns for the grandchildren, going for visitation would not help the children and likely harm them. Of parents are unfit they should be reported through the proper channels. If they are good parents then I would assume they are taking care of their children's mental and physical health and the children are coping well with the situation.

Awarded visitation may sour the relationship with grandparents later when children who usually become autonomous with their social lives are still forced to visit more often than wanted and it may build resentment.

The best way to have a good relationship with grandchildren will always be to find a way to have a good one with the parents.

Outside influences should never come between children and their parents. Children do not deserve to be put in the middle of difficult family relationships. This applies also to separated parents who cannot coparent effectively. All that does is harm children in the majority of cases.

Yes you're right User777 it does state in the Children Act that children have a right to know their extended family, which is why if GP's do go to court to get access, it's not their rights they're asking to be upheld (GP's don't have any rights when it comes to their GC) it's the children's rights.

Children do not have to be in care.

As I remember it, The Children's Act is primarily concerned with the duties of parents, courts and other organisations in safeguarding children and keeping them free from abuse and harm.

If it does say that I would love to know the specific heading it comes under so that I can update my own knowledge.

Part of the safeguarding of children within the act is safeguarding their right to know their extended family. Where for example GP's are successful in obtaining a court order to have access to their GC, that decision is based on what is in the best interests of the children.

You could go to the Family court and the children are old enough to have their views considered, but even if you succeed in having some access granted that access would need to be facilitated by the parents. There are a thousand ways they can stop this happening. If they don't comply you would need to take legal action against them, which would only aggravate the situation. Meantime the children will be caught in the cross fire.
I'm sorry to be so negative. I realy don't think a legal route would help. I do hope you can find another way.

Who would be asking the children if they wish to see their grandparents?

If you mean in regards to a court action then no, I don’t imagine their views would be taken into consideration given their ages and the fact that the courts would, in any event, assume the parents to be acting in the best interests of the children. The state is reluctant to intervene in parenting decisions, except where the child is at risk of harm. As it should be.

Are you intending to raise a court action? The best course of action would be to try and fix your relationship with the parents. Is that a possibility in your situation?

I'm sorry you find yourself in this painful position. As hard as this situation is for you, parents ultimately decide who spends time with their children. The best thing is to work out things with the parents. If you can't, then you need to respect their wishes for their minor children. Don't try to bypass the parents to get to their children.

Not knowing the details of the situation it's hard to be sure whether you can have distant contact like sending cards or gifts but, if the parents aren't passing them on, their wishes there are clear.

You can go for visitation through courts if you had a previous involved relationship with the gc, but this move, successful or not, will probably be the end of any hope of a relationship with the children's parents. The stress of this may also have a negative impact on your gc.

why have you fallen out with the GC' parents.

Children at the age of 16 have their own say about any adult contact.

When my son decided last year he never wanted anything to do with me. I sent a letter to my then 2 grandson's who I had seen every week with my son until March. To his mother in law who lives with them.

As one grandmother to another asking her to read it to the boys. I just said that I wouldn't be seeing them for a time but they hadn't done anything wrong. And that I loved them very much and would always be their nannie. And to be good boys and look after their baby brother when he was born. And to be good for daddy,mommy and nannie.

Can't remember the exact wording but those are some of the things I put . I didn't crictise my son or daughter in law . My daughter in law tore me to shreds on Reddit for writing to my grandson's via her mother.

In August last year I foolishly send birthday presents for both my son and second grandsons birthday which was the same day ,plus birth presents as knew my baby grandson was due in July and something for my oldest grandson. As in my son's email he sent in May he said to give him time.

Everything came back the day after their birthday . All unopened. Looked like someone had crushed the presents in their hands with a vile letter stating zero contact.

So zero contact he has got. I haven't sent a thing to them since.

It will be up to my 3 grandson's when they are older if they want to see me . I will be here. At the moment the oldest will be 5 in October he's brothers are 3 and 1.

It's up to you what you do but being torn to shreds over the letter and having everything returned unopened plus the final letter was that it for me.

I will never let them hurt me again like that. I don't hate my son and daughter in law. But will never trust my son ever again or forgive either of them. I miss my son and grandson's very much. And don't even know the name or date of birth of the youngest.

But I would never go to court over this. It will be my grandson's choice when they are older if they want to know me.