Just to see the children

Yes, I agree. The children should have the right to know their family tree, where they came from, their family history. I know that they will want to know about their GP and probably be against their parents for saying bad things about us. I know that's how I felt when my parents used to mock my GP and say horrid things about them.

Smileless2012

IMO it needs to be thought through very carefully CafeAuLait and I wonder if those who decide on the legal route often consider their relationship with their AC to be over anyway, so they've nothing to lose.

Yes I would expect so. I was responding to the poster who thought it might heal the relationship.

Oh I see, well I don't think that's a very likely outcome.

Smileless2012

Oh I see, well I don't think that's a very likely outcome.

I'm sure there is an exception to this somewhere but I agree, highly unlikely.

I’m thinking back in my relationship with my grandmother and the pleasure she gave me. The stories she had to tell. How she saw Queen Victoria and how her face appeared to be enamelled. How she had to send her 18 year old son back to the WW1 trenches although he was crying to stay at home. She knew he would be shot as a deserter if he didn’t return. Eventually, she lost her sight and my mother regularly took me to the cinema. I would return to grandma and relate the story of the film. If it was funny we would laugh together. If sad we would cry together. I enjoyed bringing pleasure into her life as she gave me so much pleasure. What I would have missed if I had been denied access..

Smiles my grandson's are 5, 3, and 1 at the only moment the only rights they have are what their parents give them.

If they want to know me when they are older it will be their choice and I will be here. But until then as much as it hurts me they are lost to me.

My only hope is my son tells them about his dad who died when he was 16. My husband was 47. Unfortunately the 2 I know will have forgotten me by now. But children ask questions and what my son and daughter in law tells them about me I have no idea. They might say I am dead . Only time will tell.

I was lucky I was brought up to know all my family even great aunts and uncles and second cousins. My nan was a very large part of my life . My grandad died when I was 9 but I remember him. But times change and unfortunately grandparents seem to be as disposal as rubbish.

It hurts but until it happened to me didn't realise it was so common.

I have with your help and others on the support thread made peace with it. Still hurts be I will not let it consume me. My husband dieing hurts more than anything my son has done.

I agree with Whiff.

It's a slippery slope taking your own child to court for access to their child. Where does it stop? Are Aunts and Uncles allowed to do the same?
What happens if grandparents don't want to be involved? Can the parents take them to court for access?
What if the grandparents aren't happy with the amount of time they spend with their GC? Can they take them to court for access?
Some people have 4 sets of grandparents!

It just gets too messy and there's lots to consider. The child will then be pulled from pillar to post on access days, can't do afterschool clubs or see friends. What happens if access days fall on Christmas?

It's too much. There are some not very nice people out there, not all, but some will take full advantage of it.

Sweep,

Your mother, grandmother, daughter and gd are different people.

Projecting your childhood and your relationship with your gm wont do you any favours.

Your gc is not you

You could be a different gm than the one you had

Your daughter's idea of a gm may be different than the one you can provide or you think she wants

Let the past go - that relationship you had with your gm is yours only.

You cannot replicate the same gp-gc relationship with different generations and people.

Let the past go

I would agree with this advice but, for some people, it seems to be impossible to do and they just can't move forward.

I would never go to court to demand access. I was meaning if the law in this country was changed to give grandparents access. the same as in the EU and many other countries

I agree Sweep my maternal GM was my rock until the day she died. To have been denied that relationship doesn't bear thinking about.

Whether we agree with it or not, whether or not it is something we would do, the law is the law and under the Children Act children have the right to know their extended family; GP's, aunts, uncles and cousins.

When GP's are successful in obtaining a contact order through the courts it's because the children's right to have that contact with their GP's supersedes the rights of the parents to deny it.

I agree March there are "some not very nice people out there" and some of them are the ones who deny their children their GP's, not to protect them, but out of spite and malice.

This topic has been discussed numerous times on GN and of course the repercussions of going to court must be given serious consideration. That said, if GP's wish to take the legal route that is there decision to make, just as the parents of the children have taken their decision to end the relationship their children have with their GP's.

Sweep

Grandparents rights, where they go exist, involve mediation and court.
They are not automatically granted just because the law says "grandparents have rights" (in quotes because this is hypothetical)

Have you ever mentioned this subject to your daughter? What you think about gpr?

As I've already explained Hithere GP's don't have any rights in the UK children have rights.

Smileless

Sheep's concept of gpr is very unrealistic
All I did was address that

Sweep not sheep

Difficult to discuss when there's a conflation of UK laws v other countries and I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that Sweep is in the UK?

I agree with Whiff too, it is a slippery slope.

If you think about it in terms of taking away the parents rights it shows different types of possible outcome.

It would show that whoever out of two adults in a family were able to win in court, they would gain a measure of control over the other.

Would grandparents be happy for their adult children to take them to court and get POA against their wishes and control of their finances?

That's what happens if we allow the courts to take away an adults rights.

We should not have that much control over the lives of others against their will. We should not have control over grandchildren, where they go, when they go or what they do as they already have adults responsible for them.

Their parents shouldn't have control over our lives and shouldn't get to decide where we go, when we go and what we do all the while we are capable of being responsible for ourselves.

It doesn't help Chewbacca and makes the discussion rather confusing.

But it isn't taking away the parents rights VS the law doesn't recognise their rights in this case, only the rights of the children.

It isn't about parents controlling their AC's lives it's about, in cases where there is no risk to the welfare of the children by seeing their GP's, the courts recognising it's in the best interests of the children to see their GP's.

It's about the courts upholding the rights of children and has nothing to do with parental rights or GP rights of which for the latter, there are none.

I'm afraid you can't give rights to anyone without taking them away from the other party Smileless

I'm afraid you can't give rights to anyone without taking them away from the other party

I must remember that for use on other discussion threads. Thanks!

Besides, it's not the children taking the parents to court is it? The children aren't even being asked.

If you ask most children, I don't think they would choose for their parents to have to go through a stressful court process, I don't think they would choose for their family to lose out financially and they probably wouldn't choose for people to come in and interview them in school. They probably wouldn't choose for their grandparents to have them at set times whether they want to go or not.

If the concern is that those children have bad parents and they are in any kind of danger, emotional or physical, then going for access isn't the right call. The right call is reporting them to the authorities.

Chewbacca

^I'm afraid you can't give rights to anyone without taking them away from the other party^

I must remember that for use on other discussion threads. Thanks!

On those other threads Chewbacca they already have those rights under law, some just don't want to allow it.

If two adults are decided to be competent and good parents then their judgment should be respected.

Luckily there is no case law of a GPR case being enforced in the UK and it’s unlikely it would be as it would negatively affect the child.

What I would like to see is that GPs forcing contact be forced to pay child support. They want to force themselves outside their boundaries then they can also be accountable.