SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

They're so bloody hurtful aren't the Purplepixie, well maybe one day when their children are grown up and married and their in laws, an aunt, brother and GF are invited over Christmas and they're not, they'll know how upsetting it can be.

Finding out that by mistake about a Christmas day brunch!! Why keep it a secret if they don't have any qualms about not inviting you.

With DS in Aus. we don't have the Christmas minefield to negotiate and for that I am thankful.

I think you did the right thing not sending the text yesterday if you were feeling down. You'll know when the time is right.

Just seen your post Whiff. So much for you to deal with health wise and you do with humour and courage.

We wouldn't have our ES on anything as next of kin either, well they're not now are they and as you say, their choice. It's up to their siblings to let them know what's going on

For me, if it was about an illness, I would tell DS that I'd prefer it if he didn't tell his brother but he needs to do what he's comfortable with.

Such a difficult position for them to be put in isn't it.

It's an easy choice for my daughter she had washed her hands of her brother not because of his email to her but because of what he has done to me.

My daughter and son in law are my attorneys for both powers of attorney. Hopefully they will never need to be acted on but sorted them out last year . I was going to do a pre paid cremation . But my daughter says she wants to have a funeral but it was up to her to sort it out . And anyway I couldn't die for at least 20 years. So told her I will do my best. ☺️.

Unfortunately when you are on your own things have to be sorted out long before they are needed. That's why everything is in files all labelled so as to make it easy for her.

I'm to stubborn to die just yet. And anyway still things I want to and places I want to visit. We only get one life and we have to live it the full.

My daughter has washed her hands of her brother too, Whiff. Same as yours, because of how he has treated me. I had him taken off the powers of attorney so now it leaves only my daughter. I wanted to add my son in law but that means l would need to completely re do them.
But l have still left him a small amount in my will, just can't bring myself to cut him out completely, l know this is silly, perhaps I'll change it next year. But l feel sorry for him, he's been taken in and stupid. I have told my daughter not to tell him when l die, just let him find out later on

It doesn't sound silly Hilltop we're all different as are the decisions we make.

Well this is a rather disturbing piece of research. According to Karl Pillemer, a family sociologist and Professor of Human Development at Cornwell University, his research indicates that 1 in 4 American adults have become estranged from their families.

If it's anything like that number it's frightening isn't it.

Smiles besides me I know my neighbour who is estranged from his son, my window cleaner is estranged from his 6 siblings and one of the taxi drivers I use is estranged from his daughter.

It's a hidden problem . Until I read this thread I didn't know it was called estrangement. And lot have joined since I did.

How many people are trying to cope on their own without anyone to talk to . At least here we have eachother.

What shocked me reading Sharon's book when she talked about high suicide rates in estranged parents. And how it impacts on parents health.

When my husband got cancer the figures where 1 in 3 people get it now it's 1 in 2.

The figures for estranged adults properly will go the same way.

Hilltop I did my powers from scratch so it was straight forward. I changed my will at the same time. Did you know your will can be contested up to 2 years after you die. It was a shock. I had always assumed you did your will and that was it. But anyone can contest it not just a relative .

Well if you know 4 people Whiff maybe it is an accurate ratio.

I thought there was only a 6 month period to contest a will. Oh dear, another shock for me today.

We've added a codicil to our wills to make it difficult for our ES to contest it. Do you think our EAC would?

I do not agree it is a hidden problem, look for example how often it comes up in this board

I think the people affected by it (on both sides) learn to live with it and it just doesnt come up as often as other subjects.

People tend to talk about happy events in their lives, unless there is enough familiarity and bond for it to be brought up

Estrangement and difficult family relationships have always been there, this is just more visible now, given how easy is to communicate with today's technology (unavailable in the past)

I can easily imagine my will being contested , with my DIL behind it. I have a letter with my will which explains why my ES gets a lot less than my daughter but have wondered if that is enough. Is a codicil stronger?

Smiles and Hilltop I will PM you both tomorrow. And explain what I had to do. Heads up a codicil is weaker than a new will.

As long as you write a letter stating why you are doing what you are and it’s attached to the Will via a solicitor I thought you could do as you say.
Whiff, I can understand why anyone who has no other family, possibly widowed, feels there is nothing to live for.. My life was my family and I’ve lost half. Thank goodness I’ve still got family
and friends, they bought me through, yet sometimes the loss is still too much, if I had my husband I would have coped better but at times you feel alone with it.

A codicil has the same role as an attached letter, the difference is the codicil is a part of the will document. There's no 100% way of preventing a will being contested but you can take steps to make the possibility of that being successful less likely.

I suppose a lot depends on the value of the estate. If it's not particularly valuable, due to the cost of contesting a will, for many it probably wouldn't be worth it.

Whether or not or EAC contests a will, whether or not they are successful the message is clear. Those of us who disinherit them did not feel it appropriate that they be a beneficiary.

Thanks for these posts about inheritance. Smileless, it seems a letter attached to the will is enough.

I think all anyone can do is make their will as secure as possible.

I don't recall ever seeing publicity over a case where an EAC was disinherited and contested the will. For all we know, the fact that the AC had no contact whatsoever with their parent(s) for however long, especially if it were for several years would be, in the eyes of law, sufficient justification for them being disinherited.

That would make sense but then again I'm not exactly unbiased on this matter.

Hi everyone.....

Well touch wood I haven't totally blown it by asserting myself over the Christmas arrangements. I haven't been cast into darkness again, ??. No nasty texts from DIL. She's actually being very pleasant.

Hope you are all well. I am still watching some psychology videos, still learning. It's funny but I am finding it quite interesting and I do think all this learning is helping me, not just in dealing with my son and DIL but also helping me think about what I actually want out of life for myself.

I have learned that I certainly want a different life and that I have wasted too much time in grief and sorrow.

Had my flu jab this morning, so at least I'm all jabbed up now, in time for Christmas.

Hope you are all well.

Well you're not the pushover she for some reason thought you are, so probably doesn't know what to do next DSL. How fabulous. I'm a little TBH as I never got the chance to pull the rug out from under ES's wife's feet, unless doing as requested and never begging and pleading counts.

You've struck a decisive blow for the 'Warrior Queens'.

Good news about your flu jab, I get mine next week and should get an appointment for my booster next week too.

She's probably busy plotting her next move, ?.

I have been watching some videos about estranged parents and several talk about how time can bring about change.

Not always obviously. Some ACs will remain intransigent and there's little that can be done in such cases. However, they were saying that statistically a large percentage of ACs will eventually reach a sufficient level of maturity and wisdom to make them realise what they have done and what they are missing.

Bascially they were saying that the passage of time can effect change, especially in those ACs who were naive and emotionally immature when they took the decision to estrange.

This makes a lot of sense to me.

Without wishing to appear contentious I think a lot of 30 somethings these days do seem to be less emotionally secure than in previous generations. They are "maturing" later.

Compared with our ACs I think a lot of our generation did grow up and mature at a much earlier age. We "adulted" much sooner, late teens and early 20s whereas the new normal seems to be late 30s/40s.

So maybe there's real hope out there, that, with the passage of time and the growth of maturity, one day some of them will see the light and seek to reconcile,

And of course the one piece of advice that all the psychologists give is this. Estranged parents need to heal and then build themselves the best life they can, not waste years wishing and hoping for a reconciliation that may or may not come to fruition.

I do think that what helped my son and DIL to take notice was the fact that they could plainly see that I am doing just that. I am not sitting around waiting to be taken down from the shelf, instead I am busy and happy with my own life. They were astonished that I didn't seem remotely concerned at the prospect of not seeing them on Christmas Day.

DILs grandiosity had just lead her to assume that I would be available. Why wouldn't I. In her eyes I am a nothing and a nobody who would be pathetically grateful for an invite. She assumed that she and my son were the be all and end all of my existence,

I meant to tell you the rest of the story.

When she realised I had plans she started to huff and puff and bluster saying "well in that case I think I will try and book flights to Spain and spend Christmas with some of MY family. The emphasis firmly on the MY." (Not her parents or sisters, they live further afield but mainly a couple of aunts).

I just smiled sweetly and said. "Ooh what a great idea, that would be lovely for you". And it would, I meant it sincerely.
Obviously I don't think it will happen now with the new covid variant. I think we will be seeing more travel restrictions over the winter.

But what her response demonstrated was a typical knee jerk reaction to what she perceived as a threat. I wasn't conforming. She no longer had the upper hand so she needed to reassert control and maintain the facade.

Of course me telling her to go ahead and have a jolly time flumoxed her even more. It was a double whammy to her ego.

So yes she's probably scheming and plotting as we speak. ?

Smiles........I think doing as she requested and not begging or pleading is the smart way to go. That way there can be no accusations of harassment or overstepping boundaries.

Also not grovelling gives you dignity and gravitas.

Who knows what goes in their heads, but I bet you any money that you have actually blindsided them - although they won't admit it, not even to themselves, their foolish pride won't let them see it. They need to maintain the facade.

Oh it just gets better and better DSL a classic response from someone like your d.i.l., trying to maintain the upper hand when in fact they've lost it. Love it.

I agree with you about our AC's generation maturing later. They tend not to marry until late 20's early 30's, no children until mid to late 30's so a longer period of time to think only about themselves. What pleases them. Doing what brings them and possibly their partner pleasure.

Yes, we need time to heal and time to rebuild our lives and make them the best that we can. One lady on an online site I used to be on talked about 'the hope devil' and she was right.

We were told over and over again to begin with that where there's life there's hope but that isn't necessarily true is it, and clinging on to the hope that something will change, that they will change, becomes so damaging to our well being.

If it happens it happens. I for one would rather it didn't for me. I'll never be able to have that wonderful relationship with him again, and I wouldn't want a watered down version, I'd rather have nothing and keep the peace of mind and the peace in my heart that has taken so long to find.

On a lighter note; Mr. S. has ordered a new face mask as the rules have changed again. It's horrible, and he said himself he'll look like a mixture of Hannibal Lecture and Darth Vader.

Well I just know what he'll do when he's wearing it, he'll tell friends 'I'm having an old friend for dinner'. However, I did suggest he pop round to ES's house, wearing it, and when he opens the door, do his rather good DV impression and say
'yes ..... I am your father' .

Smiles that made me laugh. Few weeks ago I got on the bus thought why is that man grinning at me then realised it was a mask. It was horrible. You saying about Hannibal Lecture it looked like that. ?

DSL, I never was clinging or expected too much, I worked full time in a responsible job however if someone is determined to get you out of their life I find they don’t have a nice side or a conscience. You cannot alter a narcissist, whatever tactic you employ, they want total control and to win.

You can't beat a bit of laughter can you Whiff and Mr. S. and I always find something to laugh about.

I think estrangement is a hidden problem. This is a forum for exactly that. How many don't have mobiles or Internet. I've thought of 2 people now. One who felt abandoned as a child and later estranged his mother. And another who estranged an entire family. One of my aunts was estranged by her AC as well but they reconciled. It's brushed under the carpet most of the time. I haven't broadcast it either. I'm embarrassed by it all.

I guess Socks, people keep it hidden, I know I used to until the veil lifted and I realised it wasn’t my shame.